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Heads Up: Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 2019 Black

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Tenderfoot, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    The two could not be further apart in what they are, though.
     
  2. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    The biggest turnoff of those amps (and lots of other solid state amps) is a speaker with murky highs. Solve that either via a vintage Celestion or Jensen, or Weber equivalent, and lots of people probably wouldn't mind using a solid state amp as a bedroom / jam amp. It's a shame that so many crap guitar speakers have been made over the years, because it shouldn't cost any more money in materials (or very little more) to make really good sounding speakers, just the same as pickups.
     
  3. drumtime

    drumtime Tele-Holic

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    The price question is confusing to me. A modern, high-quality solid state amp is not cheap. A Roland Blues Cube Artist, for example, at 80W, 1-12" speaker is $949 at Sweetwater. The Tonemaster DR, 100W, 1-12, is $899.
     
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  4. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    The problem stems from people assuming that any amp without tubes in it is essentially the exact same thing as a Peavey Bandit, and they adjust their perceptions around this myth accordingly.
     
  5. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    So who knows what tech is being used in these Tonemaster amps? I have come across someone saying that these amps are employing convolution for the reverb.
    From a player perspective, both are overpriced. From a manufacturer perspective, Whatever the market will bear. Unless you have a stake in the sales of these things, I don't see any valid argument against the player perspective.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  6. drumtime

    drumtime Tele-Holic

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    New amps are all too expensive for me. A good used tube amp is much more expensive than a good used solid state one, generally speaking.
     
  7. pugnax

    pugnax Tele-Meister

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    Good lord.

    Some people have referred to a DSP chip, as if this is an oversized guitar pedal. It’s a quad core computer processor, with two entire cores just dedicated to the convolution reverb.

    Here’s a good place to start.

     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  8. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    All things been equal, good stuff tends to hold its value while products built to meet price points tend to have horrible used values.
     
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  9. drumtime

    drumtime Tele-Holic

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    That's true, but there are plenty of solid state amps that are not "built to meet price points," and plenty of tube amps that are.
     
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  10. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I never differentiated between tube amps and non-tube amps. The only distinction for me is quality versus price point.
     
  11. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    what does convolution reverb mean??
     
  12. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    It's one type of digital reverb that sounds really, really good and tends to use a lot of processing power to get there.
     
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  13. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    Yeah ok, so the Roland is overpriced as well. Got it.

    jh
     
  14. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    A short impulse signal is fired through the device of which a sonic profile is wanted and the result is recorded to an audio file. This audio file is 'convolved' (math operation) with incoming audio (guitar signal) and mixed back with the dry audio just the same as any other reverb.
     
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  15. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    Convolution doesn't require much processing power in itself. It requires very little. But depending on whether algorithms for modulation and other operations are used in conjunction, it could get more cpu intensive than plain convolution.
     
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  16. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I'm not terribly familiar with the reverb in the ToneMasters, but Fender says that one processor core is dedicated entirely to the reverb. I do know, however, that getting a good digital representation of a spring reverb is a rarity and people who own these amps generally tend to really like the reverb, so it's possible that it's using much of that core. Not that it matters either way as long as it sounds good, obviously.
     
  17. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    It's non-existant as far as I have heard. Lots of digital plugins claim to do it, but none do it well. What I hear from the Tonemaster amps, it could be convincing but is still lacking alot of detail of a real spring reverb. That isn't any surprise to me though, since convolution isn't capable of capturing dynamic changes. It's a static snapshot, which is why dsp developers will use modulation and other means to dress up impulses, along with maybe having a rotation of impulses for some variety.
     
  18. eddiewagner

    eddiewagner Poster Extraordinaire

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    I can hardly believe what I read here. Btw: the price seems alright to me. A good tele costs about the same. And it’s just A bit of wood and some wire and screws.
     
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  19. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    A “good” Tele can be had for way less than $900 also.

    jh
     
  20. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I have found just three units (that I have tried) that do a good job: An old Lexicon rack unit, Eventide units, and the spring reverb in the Kemper. Everything else falls woefully short. The Lexicon even has adjustable "drip".
     
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