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Heads Up: Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 2019 Black

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Tenderfoot, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    Yes, my main complaint is not the sound. It sounds fine/ok for what it is. It’s the price. It’s just ridiculously overpriced for what it is.

    jh
     
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  2. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    If they produce a TM Tweed Bassman I'm buying one.
     
  3. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I think that it would be more accurate to say that the price doesn't fall in line with some peoples' perceptions of what amps "should" be, but that is certainly a subjective thing. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck...
     
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  4. keithb7

    keithb7 Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think all the prices are high on instruments. They just keep cranking everything up. $2k USD here for a Chris Stapleton 6G2. A mexican strat is about what I paid for my USA hardtail Strat new, 15 years ago. Sure ya that was 15 years ago. But my friggin wages have not gone up similarly. A new USA Strat is about $1500 USD up here in Canada. I walked through the acoustic room. Tons of selection. All too high pricing for my $50/per gig earnings. I think I jumped the shark today. There likely will not be any new stringed instruments in my view for a very long time. I’ll keep my eyes peeled at the used local stuff. I bought good gear when it was more within my idea of fair pricing.

    Today I saw tons of SS amp models. Tons of options. Cheap too. Seems to me there’s value there in the Katana and Yamaha TH series amps for use at home. If were gigging today and looking for good value in an amp? I’d be looking for tube, big iron SF Fenders. Pro Reverb. Super Reverb. Twin, Quad and, dare I say it..Super Six reverb amps. Cheap. Reliable. Big and heavy, and they’ll still get ya paid at your $50 per gig lol.
     
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  5. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I was making more than $50/night when I played in a bar band 25 years ago.
     
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  6. keithb7

    keithb7 Poster Extraordinaire

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    of course. People still went out! People respected musicians and live bar music.
     
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  7. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yep. Between karaoke and stiffer DUI enforcement, things did get much tougher for live music/people going out on weekends. We were seeing it way back then, I can only imagine how tough it is these days.
     
  8. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    Why should it be less expensive, and by how much? A DRRI...that is more expensive than a Tone Master... uses PCBs that are reportedly inferior in quality to other makers' PCB boards, and tubes from Chinese and Russian factories that have extremely poor QA. What should a Tone Master cost, and why do you feel it should cost whatever it should cost? This is not a Fender Mustang or CyberTwin dressed up in new clothing. This is new technology, and with that comes the cost of the R&D and hardware/software required to realize it.
     
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  9. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    As I stated before, if you want to pay $900 for it, have at it. I think $400 would be a fair price for what it is. A solid state amp. No matter how much you proclaim “new tech” it’s still not a tube amp. But it doesn’t matter to me what it costs because I personally wouldn’t buy it at any price. It’s not for me. Other people seem to love it so my not buying it isn’t hurting Fender. It’s just my opinion that it’s just a glorified solid state amp, because it is.

    jh
     
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  10. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    What's new technology is being used here? Genuine question, not a bait for argument.
     
  11. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    That's cool, and I agree that we should all play (and pay for) whatever works for us.

    I just don't understand the repeated complaints that these amps "should" cost less substantially less than a tube amp. Just because it happens to employ technology that someone has decided they're not going to like (and in some cases making that determination without hearing/playing one), to me that doesn't seem like justification in itself.

    I don't mean to sound argumentative, and my post probably came across this way. I get what you're saying - you just flat out don't like the idea of these amps, and that's fine.

    But, out of curiosity - what is your rationale that tube amps should cost more than non tube amps?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  12. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    Can't remember if I saw it here or on another site, but a Fender employee chimed into one of the threads and said these amps are decidedly not based on any existing technology Fender had or used previously. They started with a clean slate, from both a software and hardware perspective.

    I think a lot of people see these amps and immediately conclude, "Oh, it's a solid state amp. I've played those before and they suck. This is a cheap and overpriced piece of crap." It's an inaccurate presumption, and one that I will admit I might have made too. These amps weren't even on my radar. I gave it a chance and I think they're great. That doesn't mean anyone else should think they're great, but I do think people are jumping to uneducated conclusions based on personal bias. And that's always going to happen with many things in life.
     
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  13. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    No worries, I didn’t take it as argumentative and sorry if I came across that way. I have played the amp and I think it sounds fine. I just don’t think it sounds $900 fine. And I’m not a tube snob, I’m looking for a solid state amp actually. I just didn’t see where the value was in this amp, for me personally. I guess maybe I’ve come across as dictating what it should be for everyone.

    jh
     
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  14. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    It's not an argument that comes out of thin air. Most of us have played other modelers and know something about what their general shortcomings are in relation to the sorts of amps that they are modeling. Second, material costs for an all tube amp (even a pcb one) is going to be significantly higher than a dsp chip (with just enough computing power to do a single amp model and reverb) married to a class-D solid state amp. And amp modeling R&D has been going on for decades now, so this isn't exactly a spanking new code base that requires a bunch of recuperation. Also, Deluxes and Twins (newer ones at that) aren't exactly unicorns of tone. They are tried and true workhorse amps.
     
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  15. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Keep in mind, the cabinet is good, I think it's pine.

    That said, I feel $700 would be reasonable for it.
    No I haven't played it but I certainly would love to!!
    and I definitely believe everyone's accolades who own it or it played it in a store

    .
     
  16. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yes, they have solid pine cabinets and Neo speakers. Those two things alone will cost more than $500.
     
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  17. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    If that is what Fender said, it sounds like this is a redesign using existing tech, not new technology. And from that perspective, every new amp model (whatever the tech) is a redesign. Very few amps actually introduce and employ new technology. And code bases are very rarely thrown out and started from scratch, no matter what sort of software we are talking about. It just doesn't make sense to do so. It would be much more likely to be the case that some of the algorithms used here are novel.

    I don't doubt that some people are liking these amps. And some people also like modeler amps in general. I have genuinely tried to get along with modelers over a couple of decades, and I haven't been able to do it. That is my personal bias, coming from personal experiences. So naturally, when a new modeler comes around I employ a dose of healthy skepticism.

    Anyway, if some actual new tech has been implemented in the the Tonemaster amps, I would be interested in hearing about it.
     
  18. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    Cool. I think you're making some assumptions, but cool.

    I've worked in IT for 30 years. Code bases are very often thrown out.

    But in any case - peace, cheers, and all that good stuff. I get drawn into some of these conversations because I find the controversy surrounding these amps as kind of interesting from a human behavior perspective. I don't want to come across as someone who is arguing for one platform or another, and of course I respect that people are going to express their opinions and preferences. It's all good. I've owned and heavily gigged tube amps for many, many years, and I've hated "solid state" amps for many, many years. I've also tried some of the newer modeling tech (I have an HX Stomp but I haven't gigged it). The Tone Masters - to me - represent a real change in sound, feel, and experience of modeling. I think it's almost indistinguishable. But that's just me and that's just my opinion.
     
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  19. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    You and me both.
     
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  20. Ted Witton

    Ted Witton Tele-Meister

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    Save money - go and buy a secondhand Peavey Bandit 65 for less than $100 and you will sound very nearly as good.
     
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