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Heads Up: Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb 2019 Black

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Tenderfoot, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. ataylor

    ataylor Tele-Meister

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    Maybe you didn’t read the part where I said I’d still buy new at that price.

    But not everyone knows you can typically go down from MSRP on these items, and to them, $650 for a minty amp that they see listed at $900 is going to seem low enough.

    I don’t care what these amps go for used, I just think it’s funny to see people who are so threatened by the idea of digital equivalents of classic amps that they desperately want to see them fail.
     
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  2. Marc Morfei

    Marc Morfei Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I have not heard the Tone Master amp in person. But I have read with interest every single comment posted here and on other guitar sites by people who have purchased them. I have not read even a single comment by a single person who said they were disappointed in their purchase or thought they paid too much. So based on that, and other reasons, I don't see how anyone - least of all someone who has never heard one - could conclude they are overpriced.
     
  3. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    “Considering them to be solid state amps” no one is considering them to be, THEY ARE SOLID STATE AMPS.

    jh
     
  4. Eastbound71

    Eastbound71 TDPRI Member

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    its weird the popularity of these. To me its just a solid state digital amp that only emulates one type of amplifier instead of hundreds. Good idea but yeah for sure they are making like 800% profit from these. Good for them tho to come up with something like this. Its just a different take on a digital amp. Emulates one amp instead of many and unique in this way. Funny story, I just picked up a beat up but working perfectly 1992 princeton chorus for $20 at the local goodwill store. My buddy saw it there first and hid it under the jeans rack for me till I could get there. Someday these TM's will come down in price as well
     
  5. pugnax

    pugnax Tele-Meister

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    It's a pedantic distinction and is unhelpful. A Class D amp is technically a solid state amp, sure, although it requires a digital controller. But it is absolutely different from a Class A or AB analog amp, which is the majority of guitar amps, but tube and solid state.

    Solid state amplifiers use transistors instead of tubes to accomplish the same exact goals - make loud and get hairy if allowed to be overdriven. They are designed to saturate and produce interesting harmonics and clipping profiles. Class D amps can not be allowed to saturate or clip or they sound like death and can damage equipment. Calling a digital amp like this 'solid state' is like calling a 1995 Volvo station wagon an electric car just because it uses a battery. This amp has no more in common with a solid state amp like a Fender Pro 185 than it does with an original tube Twin or Deluxe.
     
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  6. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    Were not threatened....

    Its just funny seeing the plebes do their plebey stuff, thinking plebe plebe thought.


    Facinating.
     
  7. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    Sure, go ahead and call it solid state. It doesn't use tubes, so I can't argue with calling it solid state. But the term "solid state" carries with it some pretty negative connotations, which some posters seem delighted to propagate even though they haven't played through one of these amps. We've all played through some absolute crap-can solid state amps (which in my own experience is pretty much all of them I've tried). These amps are not those amps.

    As I said above - technology evolves (if perhaps guitar players' willingness to accept change does not).

    To dismiss the Tone Master as a "solid state amp" is like saying your cell phone is a two way radio (which it sort of is, technically). There's a little more going on than that statement would imply.

    I'll repeat that I'm not here to try to change anyone's mind about anything. If you're going to make up your mind that you don't like the Tone Masters before playing one, that's certainly your right. If you play through one and you don't like it, cool. I was, and am, a BIG fan of tube amps and I wouldn't even consider playing anything else for a long, long, long time. This is the first modeling amp (notice I didn't say "solid state") that sounds and feels like a tube amp. And it includes features that most tube amps do not. I love mine and I think it's a fantastic tool.

    Go play one. Or don't, if you don't want to.
     
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  8. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    This is basically it. many people see "SS" and immediately turn up their noses. We need a new term. "Digital" is already taken.
     
  9. trxx

    trxx Tele-Afflicted

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    Call class D a switching amp if you like, but it is solid state. And just to add to that, class D amps aren't exactly known for the absolute greatest sound quality and lowest noise. They are popular because of their power efficiency, low cost, low weight, and reasonably good sound quality for many tasks.

    One thing that I don't like about this migration toward all things digital is that it is making an easier job for manufacturers to create practically non-serviceable products. As a counter example here, not yet knowing much of anything about guitar amp circuits, I was able to tend to a bad noise issue in an amp built in the mid 60's without ever needing to contact the manufacturer for any sort of support or special parts in under an hour's time. And if you ask me, that is a very desirable quality of old tube amps. When one of these digital amp's breaks down the line, the owner will need to send it off. And after support ends, it's last stop will be a landfill.
     
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  10. Ignatius

    Ignatius Tele-Afflicted

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    Can't argue with that. Tube amps (most of 'em anyway) will be easier to repair and service, absolutely.

    In my own experience and in my own humble opinion, the whole tube amp serviceability thing seems a bit overblown. I've done something approaching 2000 gigs (lost count) and recall exactly three gigs where my amp gave up the goods. Once was a rectifier, the other two times were power tubes. None of those failures required repair to the amp circuit.
     
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  11. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yeah. I'm pretty sure Fender doesn't buy their cabs at full retail price from Mojo. They make them in their own factory for considerably less. This is a price reference that is idiotic at best, and does nothing to help actually further the discussion.

    Anyway. I'm going to point this out, since it seems to be missed.

    Hearing is a 'sense' and we all hear better or worse than one another, on a continuum of sorts. If your friend wears glasses and doesn't see well, it's not a personal failing, and very few would take it as such. We just know, by the obvious sign of wearing corrective eye wear, that he doesn't see all that well without them.

    Back to hearing. Some people can hear better than others. It's not a personal failing, it just is what it is. Other than a hearing aid if you really lose your hearing, very few corrective hearing pieces are worn or even exist. So we have no obvious clues that someone's hearing may not be quite so acute.

    I have played one. I can hear the difference, the compression, the lack of 'resonant depth' or something--both when I played in store, and in every 'comparison' I have looked at online. But I don't need to be hectored by someone who can't hear the difference.

    I think they sound very convincing, and are a good solution for what will hopefully be a fairly maintenance free, light amp to take to a gig where frankly, the audience is not likely to hear any difference in tone once atmosphere and everything else is factored in.

    They seem to be popular amps that are serving people's purposes well enough. I'm fine with that. But I don't think there needs to this attitude about being able to hear a difference.

    What I have been hearing in comments is much more 'I can hear a slight difference, but it doesn't matter to me' which is very different than 'I don't hear a difference.'

    Let's keep in mind the fact that we have varying abilities to actually hear anyway.

    Thanks for your time.
     
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  12. Fred Rogers

    Fred Rogers Tele-Afflicted

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    Stores can’t keep the Tone Masters in stock. They always sell out fast. I guess that means the people that complain about price are in the minority because they are selling.
     
  13. mugen74

    mugen74 Tele-Holic

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    It’s a $900 solid state amp. If that makes sense to you, do as you wish with your money. For me, it seems quite ridiculous.

    jh
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  14. pugnax

    pugnax Tele-Meister

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    Absolutely share the concern around disposable electronics and whatnot. I actually think this product can be seen as an interesting answer, as it’s highly unlikely to fail in the ways tube amps can (like a bad fuse or capacitor or loose connection) and if something does go haywire and the device doesn’t work, as many people have pointed out, the internal boards are pretty modular and likely relatively inexpensive and easy to replace. Plus the possibilities for altering the model or diagnostics via usb could come into play. Even more interesting is that the chassis remains (more or less) to spec, so if it was hopeless to repair I’d gut it, punch whatever holes I need for the transformers and whatnot, order a parts kit, and rebuild it as a tube amp.

    I disagree with that assessment. The topic at hand wasn’t FMIC marginal revenue, but what the secondhand market is likely to be for these amps. I argue that the consumer price for an unloaded, pro-tolexed, finger-jointed pine cabinet complete with a baffle is unlikely to be comparable to the same thing with a 12” neo speaker and a small computer to boot. I think that is indeed helpful to the discussion.

    I totally agree with the sentiment here, and I don’t think I said anything about them sounding identical or not. I definitely think that they sound slightly different to their tube counterparts, and totally agree that in most practical scenarios most people aren’t going to be aware of any of it.

    So apologies for making you feel hectored because you can hear differences and appreciate the cork-sniffy, audiophile stuff. I do too! I didn’t mean it in a derogatory manner, but I do think you misunderstood my point. It’s not that people aren’t hearing a real difference - it’s that often a lot of the differences are distorted by a too-stiff speaker (compression) or are impossible to comprehend via video and vary wildly between instruments (dynamic response, depth). Nothing wrong with not liking the amp, each to their own. But I doubt many people could actually pick out the tonemaster (if broken in and dialed to taste) in a lineup of 5 vintage and reissued amps of the same model. They’ll all sound a bit different, and some people will like different ones more than others.
     
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  15. ataylor

    ataylor Tele-Meister

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  16. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Friend of Leo's

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    A lot of this talk reminds me of the 11-year old boys who will never, ever, touch a "gurl" 'cause they have cooties!
     
  17. Fred Rogers

    Fred Rogers Tele-Afflicted

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    There is nothing wrong with solid state amps. The Roland JC-120 has been around for years. I’ve never heard anyone complain about it’s price.
     
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  18. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I own a $2500 solid state amp (the floor controller for it was an additional $450 on top of that). In five years I have never had one bit of buyer's remorse-and I have tube amps that cost about the same to compare it against.
     
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  19. t-luxe

    t-luxe Tele-Afflicted

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    Could you post your link to Fender's Financial data on this?
     
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  20. The-Kid

    The-Kid Tele-Holic

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    Good points but have to agree with everything @backporchmusic said

    In summary these are neat but dont sound anywhere close to the real thing in person or in video...unless its heavily edited to make them sound similar.....otherwise they just arent the same at all IMO and a snob aint ganna like these for this reaoson.

    This is the best video, or worst or just plain true recording to real life I could compare to. I could tell well before I saw the end which was which....

    The verb and the cranked and "warmer tones" just arent there with the Tone Master IMO. And for what 200-300 bucks more you could get either the counterpart of the real thing.....I mean at 900 and 1000 dollars for the Tonemasters.....its just not cool and well why not get the real thing vs pretendo at this point. especially for all this cash......

    Its like spending 35000 for a new entry level car.....but for 36000 you can get the suped up better version.....I mean 35000$....whats another 1000$.....At these prices none of these Tone Masters are a smart buy especially when compared to the Top Shelf Reissues



    it aint free and well for that little price difference and so much money on the table the smart choice I dont care what anyones argument here is, is to get the real thing.


    Great concept neat idea.....

    But just not 900-1000$ good especially when one could get a Helix or Eleven rack for that much and get similar and maybe better tones that could do alot more incorporated into your current rig or straight into any PA ready for play anywhere your most likely to go or with good monitors at home you most likely already have......


    Slowly the honey moon will end and people will become sane again and realize these are great yes.....

    But not 900-1000$ great.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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