Have Refins Become To Be Expected?

[ElvisNixon]

There’s a couple guitars that I have wanted forever. I started in the times when a refinished vintage instrument would automatically cut the value in half. Overspray was a pretty big ding and were priced accordingly.

I remember seeing some butchered vintage guitars and it seems every one of those guitars aren’t around anymore. Restoration?

I’m seeing people asking big $$$ for refinished guitars compared to original finish instruments.

Have refinished guitars become the norm and original finish doesn’t command the premium $$& they used to?

I’m just leary about all those 50’s and 60’s Strats with a Floyd hacked in with a chainsaw and scalloped fingerboards. Swimming pool routs, etc. Are these guitars now the $50K refinished Strats or Teles I see for sale?

 

[sonicdom]

Refin guitars sell now for what original ones sold four years ago... and original ones went through the roof. I mean back when a refin 50's tele was 5-7k, okay, that's a cool player you can take out to a gig... but with the ridiculous prices people are asking (and sometimes getting) today, no way. It's not a player guitar and not a collectible guitar either. I'd never buy a refin.

 

[Singin' Dave]

Proper answer by Sonic B above - No data on hand to back this up, but I would argue that a refin still brings a similar equal % reduction is sale price from original finish as in past. It's just that the numbers are bigger across the board.

 

[ElvisNixon]

There’s a $50K for a’55 Strat on Reverb with a blonde refin just doesn’t compute. I have to wonder what would cause a dealer to refinish a ‘55 Strat. Something like I was speaking of like a Floyd or a swimming pool route or God knows what.

I agree with everything said in this topic. The price of original finish guitars has skyrocketed and have dragged the refins up with them. Kinda a rising tide raises all ships thing I guess.

 

[MelodicBend]

Don't 't compute any numbers other than final sale price. A woefully overlooked feature of ebay and reverb is the ability to see what stuff actually sold for. The information on those search results is infinitely more useful than typing an item name and checking asking prices. There will always be differences and gaps between list price and actual market price or sale price.

Also, there's the whole first rule of economics aspect of it all: supply and demand! The number of original pieces in quality condition are more scarce and valuable.

I think a lot of those re-fins were done when those guitars were nowhere near as valuable. Same with routing and other modifications. They are almost always "old re-fins". There was also a trend some years ago with Fenders when they were stripped and clear coated.

 

[String Tree]

There’s a couple guitars that I have wanted forever. I started in the times when a refinished vintage instrument would automatically cut the value in half. Overspray was a pretty big ding and were priced accordingly.

I remember seeing some butchered vintage guitars and it seems every one of those guitars aren’t around anymore. Restoration?

I’m seeing people asking big $$$ for refinished guitars compared to original finish instruments.

Have refinished guitars become the norm and original finish doesn’t command the premium $$& they used to?

I’m just leary about all those 50’s and 60’s Strats with a Floyd hacked in with a chainsaw and scalloped fingerboards. Swimming pool routs, etc. Are these guitars now the $50K refinished Strats or Teles I see for sale?

Believe me, they can ask as much as they want for those Guitars with the Rattle Can Finishes.
No Sale.

 

[Antoon]

A couple of years ago there were also these refinishers who bought up these hacked old Fenders to 'restore' and flip them for double the price. They were active on ebay as well as at guitar shows. Fiesta finishes comes to mind. I guess that supply has dried up as well meanwhile.

 

[Killing Floor]

Take this how you may. But nobody wanted dinged up guitars back then. You worked your butt off to buy a guitar and you’d want it to look new forever. Repainting was really normal. So yes, you’ll find a lot of refinished vintage guitars. But in most cases those 1970 guitars were repainted in 1973, not 2021, so it’s still totally a vintage axe.

 

[ElvisNixon]

Don't 't compute any numbers other than final sale price. A woefully overlooked feature of ebay and reverb is the ability to see what stuff actually sold for. The information on those search results is infinitely more useful than typing an item name and checking asking prices. There will always be differences and gaps between list price and actual market price or sale price.

Also, there's the whole first rule of economics aspect of it all: supply and demand! The number of original pieces in quality condition are more scarce and valuable.

I think a lot of those re-fins were done when those guitars were nowhere near as valuable. Same with routing and other modifications. They are almost always "old re-fins". There was also a trend some years ago with Fenders when they were stripped and clear coated.

Yeah, I need to figure out how to find the “advanced search” feature on eBay and Reverb on the mobile version of both. I can’t find the actual selling price on my iPhone and I’m waiting to buy another computer. I know how to search actual sales price on the desktop versions.

These that I’m talking about are freshly refinished by one dealer who I won’t name. High end guitars that are freshly refinished by the dealer who’s selling the instrument makes my spidey sense tingle. This seller is well known and has a ton of newly refinished grail guitars. I’m just suspicious of refins in general and new refins in particular.


What would be the reason to refin a 50’s Strat or Tele? Unless it’s had been seriously butchered and repaired which would be the only reason that makes sense to refinish.

I’m seeing it more and more from other dealers too. The law of supply and demand is ever present and always proves out. I would say that it mainly applies to original finish and 100% original parts and the refins/rebuilt guitars are more common and priced at a premium by several well respected dealers. I guess the times they are a changin’

I was looking for a ‘55 Strat with an older refin so I don’t have to worry as much about my super clean’55 for playing out with.

I think the real reason is that starting in the early 80’s the Japanese and now the Chinese investors have bought up almost all the A#1 primo guitars as long term investments.

I don’t think they will come back home anytime soon. The Japanese look at investments over a period of 25-50 years whereas the rest of the world looks at it from a 5 year perspective.

The Japanese have bought up all the classic McIntosh and Saul Marantz hi-fi’s, vintage Harleys and Indians, classic 40’s and 50’s motorcycle jackets and boots, etc. etc.

I guess I’m lucky I found these through a friend who was constantly going estate sales. A ‘55 Strat and a ‘52 Tele. They are both from the original owner who only played them Sundays in church.

You can see the identical play wear on the fingerboards. The owner put them under the bed in the early sixties until I bought them in the mid nineties.

Am I so out of touch that a newly refinished ‘55 Strat for $50K is a hard pass for me. What could have been so wrong with the guitar that a large and experienced vintage guitar dealer would refinish a 50’s Strat or Tele?

Here’s My ‘55 Strat and ‘52 Tele, both in 100% original condition with their original cases. The Tele is 6lbs 3oz. and the Strat is 6lb 9oz and they play and sound heavenly.

I didn’t pay crazy money ($10K for the pair) for them either. I guess that may cloud my judgement on this subject.

 

[Boreas]

There’s a couple guitars that I have wanted forever. I started in the times when a refinished vintage instrument would automatically cut the value in half. Overspray was a pretty big ding and were priced accordingly.

I remember seeing some butchered vintage guitars and it seems every one of those guitars aren’t around anymore. Restoration?

I’m seeing people asking big $$$ for refinished guitars compared to original finish instruments.

Have refinished guitars become the norm and original finish doesn’t command the premium $$& they used to?

I’m just leary about all those 50’s and 60’s Strats with a Floyd hacked in with a chainsaw and scalloped fingerboards. Swimming pool routs, etc. Are these guitars now the $50K refinished Strats or Teles I see for sale?

Asking ain't getting. Many dreamers out there. No collector is going to pay big bucks for a refin. A vintage 50s guitar with a refin from the 60s-70s might fetch more than the same guitar with a recent refin, but nothing like an original. If you are seeing allotta refins, then they shouldn't command rare prices.

That being said, it doesn't mean a refin wouldn't be the guitar for you, just use it as a strong bargaining chip. A refin won't interest a collector, and an OVERPRICED refin won't interest most players. So the person in the market for a vintage refin is the rarity. Use it to your advantage.

 

[Wrong handed]

Every time that I see those prices the first thing that comes to my head is money laundry. I hope it's not.

 

[ElvisNixon]

In the 80’s when it seemed like everyone powdered their nose and vintage guitars were just taking off, there was lots of funny business and trading guitars for elicit substances and inflated values were just a well known thing as amongst shady, fly by night dealers. These guys did more than just doing a bump or two socially. Some became full-on addicts.

I’m not at all saying that that’s what’s going on nowadays. The eighties were a hell of a drug

 

[slack]

Don't 't compute any numbers other than final sale price. A woefully overlooked feature of ebay and reverb is the ability to see what stuff actually sold for. The information on those search results is infinitely more useful than typing an item name and checking asking prices. There will always be differences and gaps between list price and actual market price or sale price.

I believe that the vast majority of such sales on eBay and Reverb are via offers. Neither site shows the actual selling price for those ended listings, but rather the last BIN price.

 

[ElvisNixon]

I believe that the vast majority of such sales on eBay and Reverb are via offers. Neither site shows the actual selling price for those ended listings, but rather the last BIN price.

This is correct. At least as a buyer on Reverb. EBay I don’t know.

I bought via an offer I solicited and on the “This item is no longer available” page was the original non discounted price.

I have gotten offers from some of the sellers of the vintage guitars that I’m watching and have received about an average of 5% discounts almost immediately. Whoop dee do!

$50K “special offer” on a refin 52 Tele?

 

[58Bassman]

IMO, there are way too many fads in instrument buying.

 

[Jakedog]

“What would be the reason to refinish a 50’s Tele or Strat?”

Today? There are a couple very legit reasons.

One is that in the 70’s, a LOT of old fenders were stripped and sprayed clear. It was a big fad. A lot of people did it. I know a guy here in town who has a ‘64 or ‘65 Strat (I forget which) that is stripped to natural wood, sprayed clear, and has his name stenciled on the back in huge green letters. It was done in the 70’s.

If that piece came into a dealership I owned, I’d buy it as cheap as possible, and invest in a quality Re-fin in factory correct color and finish type, to ensure max profit on Re-sale. Left as it is, it’s worth less than a “correct” refin. Much less.

In the 70’s AND in the 80’s lots of these things were repainted all kinds of crazy colors. I’ve actually seen a real 55 Strat refinished in candy blue with hot rod flames. Refinished again in a correct two color burst it will bring a much larger price tag.

 

[ElvisNixon]

“What would be the reason to refinish a 50’s Tele or Strat?”

Today? There are a couple very legit reasons.

One is that in the 70’s, a LOT of old fenders were stripped and sprayed clear. It was a big fad. A lot of people did it. I know a guy here in town who has a ‘64 or ‘65 Strat (I forget which) that is stripped to natural wood, sprayed clear, and has his name stenciled on the back in huge green letters. It was done in the 70’s.

If that piece came into a dealership I owned, I’d buy it as cheap as possible, and invest in a quality Re-fin in factory correct color and finish type, to ensure max profit on Re-sale. Left as it is, it’s worth less than a “correct” refin. Much less.

In the 70’s AND in the 80’s lots of these things were repainted all kinds of crazy colors. I’ve actually seen a real 55 Strat refinished in candy blue with hot rod flames. Refinished again in a correct two color burst it will bring a much larger price tag.

My question is more about one dealer refinishing using the same company to do the work on every high-end Fender in his inventory.

I guess it’s my old car/motorcycle instincts, but I would rather buy the hippie stripped guitar and refinish it after seeing it before being refinished. I’d rather see the warts and all than having a high end guitar with a brand new finish. I guess it would sway me a bit if there were detailed pics of the guitar before and during the refinishing. Never buy a classic car with brand new paint and no pictures.

I’m not talking about all the old “Hippie Stripper” Strats that were everywhere as you say.

 

[Jakedog]

My question is more about one dealer refinishing using the same company to do the work on every high-end Fender in his inventory.

I guess it’s my old car/motorcycle instincts, but I would rather buy the hippie stripped guitar and refinish it after seeing it before being refinished. I’d rather see the warts and all than having a high end guitar with a brand new finish. I guess it would sway me a bit if there were detailed pics of the guitar before and during the refinishing. Never buy a classic car with brand new paint and no pictures.

I’m not talking about all the old “Hippie Stripper” Strats that were everywhere as you say.

“Hippie Stripper”. Band name alert!

 

[E Baxter Put]

I don't know... if you are selling a guitar, there will be people who low ball offers because the original finish is too dinged up. Or low ball because it is a refinish. There is no real verifiable way to tell if a refinish or a beat up original finish will bring a higher or lower price. You can always find some nitpicky reason to offer a low price. The original finish has to be worn in just the perfect way for it to be worth any $$. See the "DON" sticker thread to see how quickly people will devalue an original finish.

 

[Masmus]

“What would be the reason to refinish a 50’s Tele or Strat?”

Today? There are a couple very legit reasons.

One is that in the 70’s, a LOT of old fenders were stripped and sprayed clear. It was a big fad. A lot of people did it. I know a guy here in town who has a ‘64 or ‘65 Strat (I forget which) that is stripped to natural wood, sprayed clear, and has his name stenciled on the back in huge green letters. It was done in the 70’s.

If that piece came into a dealership I owned, I’d buy it as cheap as possible, and invest in a quality Re-fin in factory correct color and finish type, to ensure max profit on Re-sale. Left as it is, it’s worth less than a “correct” refin. Much less.

In the 70’s AND in the 80’s lots of these things were repainted all kinds of crazy colors. I’ve actually seen a real 55 Strat refinished in candy blue with hot rod flames. Refinished again in a correct two color burst it will bring a much larger price tag.

I think this is it exactly^^^^^.

As far as a $50k refinished guitar, there are some guitars out there that are so rare and desirable that that would be a low price, and yes still a 50% reduction.

I’d like to know when ElvisNixon bought those guitar’s because that is a crazy smokin hot price you got those for. Btw those are gorgeous.