Hamilton v Verstappen

jimd

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Jeez, I hope they don't stoop that low. This last race was bad enough with all the drama of the crashes, penalties and complaining. The Jeddah track looked too dangerous and it wasn't helped by the very aggressive driving. Hopefully the last race will be a clean one.
 

clingin_on

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On the final race , with points even but Verstappen one win ahead, all he needs to win the F1 world championship is for Hamilton not to finish... Even if Verstappen also did not finish, he would be crowned champion.

So, does anyone else think they know how this is going to play out? I hope I'm wrong but....:eek::(

Are you hinting that Verstappen might take out Hamilton? I don't think he'd stoop that low. I'm not a huge Verstappen fan, but would like to see a change.

I'm looking forward to next year. Hopefully there will be a seismic shift in the hierarchy.

This Merc dominance is getting kind of tedious. I respect Hamilton as a driver.
 
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clayville

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If the season had ended in Saudi Arabia, with Hamilton and Verstappen tied on points but Verstappen ahead on wins - one could argue ahead on wins because of a rain-shortened three laps behind a Safety Car at Spa - it would have ruined an otherwise dramatic nail-biter of a season.

That said, I'm a Hamilton partisan and feel Verstappen has been way over the limit on fair and safe racing multiple times this year in particular. Sure, he's an aggressive driver. But he's also willing to take corners he hasn't earned, willing to run himself or others off the track illegally - and neither the Race Director nor the Stewards have consistently adjudicated these situations (see Brasil). Other drivers have sought clarification on what the rules actually are in a 70 year-old sport thanks to his tactics. Do I think he'll be champion some day? Sure, maybe this Sunday. Do I think he will have earned it on driving skill and engineering prowess alone? No.

It'll be a wild Netflix "Drive to Survive" next time...
 

clingin_on

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and neither the Race Director nor the Stewards have consistently adjudicated these situations (see Brasil).

Well as you know, this is F1. The goalposts are constantly moved, depending on, for example, political affiliations, the "old boys" network, television ratings, and who-knows what else.

Of course, it could also be plain incompetence or a mixture of all these things and more.

It's a show. The older I get, the less-seriously I take it.
 

BerkshireDuncan

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Are you hinting that Verstappen might take out Hamilton? I don't think he'd stoop that low. I'm not a huge Verstappen fan, but would like to see a change.

I'm looking forward to next year. Hopefully there will be a seismic shift in the hierarchy.

This Merc dominance is getting kind of tedious. I respect Hamilton as a driver. I do wonder though, with regards to those T-shirts he wears, whether he really knows anything about US p****ics.

Yup. He's a keen virtue signaller.. although when questioned about Mercedes accepting Kingspan Insulation sponsorship, apparently it has 'nothing to do with him'.
 

clayville

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It's a show. The older I get, the less-seriously I take it.

I'm neither an F1-lifer nor a recent bandwagoneer, but will admit that my following of the sport has intensified over the last five years to the point where I've become more likely to swear at Pirelli, tune in to Free Practice, or (this week) argue about whether DRS should be disallowed for a lap when a driver is forced to give back an on track place with my F1 Spirit Guide buddy. The day will soon come when I need to adopt your stance for health reasons!
 

Ben Harmless

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The Jeddah track looked too dangerous and it wasn't helped by the very aggressive driving.

I was worried about this as soon as I saw the place - before a single car hit the track. Too fast, too narrow, too many corners. Pick two, not all three.

...And then the driving didn't help. I'm a relatively new fan, but I know that there are plenty of historical rivalries that have gotten ugly. I honestly don't think either Max or Lewis shows up in the morning with a plan to drive dirty, it's just when the pressure builds, neither one of them knows when to walk away. Max is young, and doesn't want to take the gamble on 2022 to try to get his title. Lewis feels like he has no choice because he can't sleep until WDC 8. He won't accept being the greatest until it happens.

I was really encouraged when Max pulled out of the fray at turn 1, and I thought, "oh, this might be better than I expected." Not so. I'm sad to say that I'm not surprised that the data strongly points to him deserving the extra penalty.

I also get frustrated by internet commenters who make claims about the FIA conspiring with a team or failing to be impartial. And say what you will about Michael Masi, but the guy was working hard and genuinely trying to get everyone to just settle the heck down.

All I know is that either Max or Lewis is going to have to accept losing the title next week or it's going to get bad. I almost hope it's just one of those 30-second interval races and someone has to come to peace with being second. Either that, or I want the FIA to just say "#&% it, we're just giving the title to Valtteri and Checo to share." Better yet, just surprise Ocon with a trophy. Dude passed Lewis, and that was the cleanest driving all race long.
 
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unixfish

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Saudi Arabia was a messy race on a dangerous track. We all saw that coming.

Max? Yep, he has pushed too hard. Lewis? Does anyone remember Silverstone? He has pushed too hard as well. Is it equal blame? Well, no, but there is no "once clear villain" here either.

Max is relentless and will not give in. Lewis is relentless and only gives in when personal injury or a DNF is at risk. The cars are about equal. The drivers are about equal. This is how we got to this point, after all.

I don't want to see a damaged car decide the outcome. However, these two are likely to be 1 and 2 on the grid, making this even more likely.

Watching the races has become stressful. :D
 

Cyberi4n

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Are you hinting that Verstappen might take out Hamilton? I don't think he'd stoop that low. I'm not a huge Verstappen fan, but would like to see a change.

I'm looking forward to next year. Hopefully there will be a seismic shift in the hierarchy.

This Merc dominance is getting kind of tedious. I respect Hamilton as a driver. I do wonder though, with regards to those T-shirts he wears, whether he really knows anything about US p****ics.

This pretty much. Lewis should stick to racing and not complain about stuff from his privileged position - more than a tad hypocritical imho. I’m bored of his point of view, and I’m also utterly bored of his dominance (just as I was with Vettel’s dominance, and Schumacher’s before him). Too much dominance from one person/team is bad for any sport.

FWIW I love the Drive To Survive seasons - the rivalry between the other teams and drivers is interesting, and to be honest I think it’s a shame most of it is missed in the mainstream race coverage here in the U.K.
 

Si G X

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It could happen that way, but not intentionally I don't think ... but neither will be giving the other an inch as the whole drivers championship is on the line.. there's no 'next time' this time.

I want Max to win, just because ... I'm not a fan of either but it would be good for the sport if we have a new drivers champ.

(I'm presuming unless Merc have a total disater, they've got the constructors championship already)
 

unixfish

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As for the 2022 cars, I think there may be a shakeup? I still think the top teams will be the top teams. If there is any shakeup in the order, it will settle out after a year or two, and we will come back to the same cast of characters we have now.

Maybe the shakeup will come from the midfield and they will all be a bit closer. Maybe some midfield team gets it wrong and drops down.

Or - maybe someone gets it right and pushes right to the top?

Meh. I think status quo will be the word of the day next year too. Maybe the racing will be better since they can follow closer.
 

Asmith

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This pretty much. Lewis should stick to racing and not complain about stuff from his privileged position - more than a tad hypocritical imho. I’m bored of his point of view, and I’m also utterly bored of his dominance (just as I was with Vettel’s dominance, and Schumacher’s before him). Too much dominance from one person/team is bad for any sport.

FWIW I love the Drive To Survive seasons - the rivalry between the other teams and drivers is interesting, and to be honest I think it’s a shame most of it is missed in the mainstream race coverage here in the U.K.

Drive to survive finally got me to start following F1, it's the only sport that's piqued interest as an adult. But as you said the UK coverage is pretty poor which is a bit of a joke with Hamilton being at the top for so long. White certainly dramatised it is a much more diverse and interesting point of view.

I've found Haas particularly interesting to watch even if it is just them struggling to stay afloat.
 




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