boneyguy
Doctor of Teleocity
I'm curious as to what purpose a grill cloth frame serves in front of the baffle as opposed to just attaching the cloth directly to the baffle?
Grill Cloth Frame Question - Why?
- Thread starter boneyguy
- Start date
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I suppose that you are referring to late ‘67 until early ‘69 on Silver Face Fender amps with drip-edge frames around the grill cloth.
In my younger days, I always thought that the frame looked part of an aluminum screen door.
Over the past 15 years or so, I think they look good.
Especially the SF black-line drip-edge amps, that are often a bargain, since they still have BF components and cab design but sell cheaper that the BF models.
Not sure the intent of drip-edge design? Curious also.
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andy__d
Tele-Holic
I’m not sure about specific amps, but on my builds, the speakers are front loaded, with the screw heads on the front of the baffle. The grille frame allows you to pull the grille out quickly and easily to access the speaker screws. Most hifi speakers I’ve encountered had a removable grille on the front, so many it was just the “normal” way that people thought about building speaker cabs in the time guitar amps were being designed? There was also a fashion in the 70s for taking the grille off of your speakers, maybe they thought people would want to do the same with guitar amps?
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Ringo
Poster Extraordinaire
Peavy, Yamaha and a lot of other amps have used glued in speaker baffle boards with a separate grill cloth frame. As mentioned, if you front mount the speaker it's very easy to take the grill cloth frame off to access the speaker instead of rear mounting the speaker then you have take the back panel(s) off and maybe pull the amp chassis in the case of a combo amp to remove the speaker.
I've read debates about the tonal difference of front vs rear mounted speakers but I don't really think it makes that much difference.
I've read debates about the tonal difference of front vs rear mounted speakers but I don't really think it makes that much difference.
Because the grill cloth can audibly smack on the front of the baffle once the speaker starts moving enough air.
At some point, Leo started gluing the speaker baffle into the cabinet as it was assembled. The grill and frame were attached with Velcro strips. All of the assembly operations and workers were on time quotas, they had to meet production numbers. Leo never would have added a step if it didn’t somehow save money. The drip edge chrome was just foo foo, which didn’t last long.
@boneyguy
The grill cloth needs to be suspended off the baffle like a drum head, because at loud volumes it behaves like a drum head. Laying directly on the baffle, the cloth will make a buzzing sound against the front of the baffle.
The grill cloth needs to be suspended off the baffle like a drum head, because at loud volumes it behaves like a drum head. Laying directly on the baffle, the cloth will make a buzzing sound against the front of the baffle.
Leo Fender was not part of the Fender organization when the glued in baffleboard and separate grille board were introduced circa 1971.
The contracts with CBS were signed the first week of January, 1965. That essentially the end of Leo Fender’s influence. He had an office in which he sat and basically did nothing, as I have read. He had sold the company due to a long-term infection which was weakening him and with which no doctor had been able to deal. In the late ‘60s, a doctor gave Leo F. a very aggressive antibiotic treatment that knocked the infection out. He left Fender CBS under a non-compete agreement, but by 1971 he was a silent partner in MusicMan with forest White and Tom Walker.
It's apparently an attempt to save money by routing a groove in the cabinet with automated machine and permanently gluing in the speaker baffle in the groove. This made things so the worker could simply assemble the cab without a lot of knowledge. More "Lego" like. They went to rabbeted and gun stapled corners on the cabs at the same time to save time of finger jointing the corners.
Bad idea and not sure it really saved anything. Or maybe they thought it was an improvement.
LostGonzo85
Tele-Afflicted
Yup, quicker/cheaper assembly was certainly the reason for the switch. Unfortunately the mdf CBS-Fender used for the grille cloth frame was prone to warpage from moisture exposure, thus why just about every single well-used later silverface era amp you see in a shop seems to have some kind of Salvador Dali thing going on with the grille cloth.
Yeah, they used that "new fangled space capsule Velcro" stuff to hold it on too! That and the particle board grill frame were a bad idea.
W.L.Weller
Friend of Leo's
This behavior is not limited to the medium-density fiberboard that Fender was using in that era, unfortunately.
keithb7
Poster Extraordinaire
A grill cloth fastened directly to the baffle board sucks. You’ll see the speaker T-nuts popping out the cloth. Even if the speaker is rear mounted. Additionally the Fender logo needs somewhere solid to mount. A nice little triangle piece in the corner of the baffle board serves the purpose.
While Leo was steering the ship it wasn’t always about cost savings and efficiency. CBS era, indeed it was. Leo road tested his gear and made constant improvements. Bob Willis’ Texas Playboys were among the first to road-beat Leo’s amps. They’d drop-in when they were in the California area. They’d show Leo what the road does to them. Leo would repair or offer them a new latest/greatest amp to demo and beat to heck and back. Leo would carefully listen to the pickers comments and take them back to his lab. Dreaming-up improvements. This is a big part of the reason these old amps are still alive and kicking today.
Many other professionals also road tested Leo’s amps. Carl Perkins and Dick Dale to name a few.
See below here how the baffles lift the cloth off the speakers faces. Plus supports the logo. This is a naked 1962 Blonde Twin.
We all owe Leo a mountain of gratitude.
While Leo was steering the ship it wasn’t always about cost savings and efficiency. CBS era, indeed it was. Leo road tested his gear and made constant improvements. Bob Willis’ Texas Playboys were among the first to road-beat Leo’s amps. They’d drop-in when they were in the California area. They’d show Leo what the road does to them. Leo would repair or offer them a new latest/greatest amp to demo and beat to heck and back. Leo would carefully listen to the pickers comments and take them back to his lab. Dreaming-up improvements. This is a big part of the reason these old amps are still alive and kicking today.
Many other professionals also road tested Leo’s amps. Carl Perkins and Dick Dale to name a few.
See below here how the baffles lift the cloth off the speakers faces. Plus supports the logo. This is a naked 1962 Blonde Twin.
We all owe Leo a mountain of gratitude.
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Cloth needs room to float!
Looks better too.
Looks better too.
