Great Anti Piracy Essay

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by jbdrumbo, Jun 19, 2012.

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  1. Boubou

    Boubou Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    Oops excuse me while I leave. This thread is ripe for putting some people on ignore, so I will leave before I remember their names
     
  2. TheRumRunner

    TheRumRunner Tele-Afflicted

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    I hope this thread doesn't deteriorate into ***** flinging.

    Lowery brings up many valid points. The biggest challenge faced by musicians is the perception that music should be "free" by a very large percentage of listeners. I don't have a clue how we can change that.

    DW
     
  3. hemingway

    hemingway Poster Extraordinaire

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    Sharing the odd album is no worse than borrowing a book from someone.

    Having a policy of never paying for music is wrong. You all know it's wrong. If you read that article carefully you just can't argue with it.
     
  4. mal paso

    mal paso Banned

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    Do people here really use the ignore function? Even if I disagree with someone, I like to hear an opposing point of view.

    Uhh, anyway, I got into a lot of bands(whose cds I paid for) from being introduced to them through friends mix tapes. This was before the internet, so it was a lot harder back then to hear new good stuff, let alone find an avenue for such music


    Obviously, it's quite different now
     
  5. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Also, when you lend a book, you know that your friend is not making a copy of it to keep for himself.
     
  6. mal paso

    mal paso Banned

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    Unless he reads it, and then the copy is in his brain
     
  7. elsewhere

    elsewhere Tele-Holic

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    Most people not paying for recorded music is the way of today, and the way of the future. That's just how it is and no amount of crying, whining or stomping your feet is going to change that. Computers and telecommunications made a lot of things easier that were impossible before, and large scale distribution of digital content is one of those things. That is just as revolutionary as the printing press used to be when it was invented, and the social change that is going to come with it is just as great, if not greater. Some business models simply will not work in the 21st century and the sooner artists realized this, the better off they will be. Perhaps this will be the end of professional recorded music, I don't know. That would be sad, but then again, there are no people building horse carriages for living anymore either. In any case, people will still play and enjoy music ten thousand years from now.

    Gave Nevell of Valve Software put it eloquently: Piracy is a service problem. These people want something from you that you aren't selling them on the terms and conditions they find acceptable. Yes, it's flat-out wrong to just go and take it, and one of my pet peeves with people is the sense of entitlement that's so common nowadays, but you cannot prevent that without going back to the time when there were no computers, and that is not going to happen. Putting blame on computer manufacturers and internet service providers like Lowery did in the article reeks of the same sense of entitlement (hint: people are not obliged to buy music). I use my computers for work, study and leisure and I don't want no stinking recording artist to come between me and my data, nor do I want to see the network infrastructure demolished to build a virtual police state where copyright holders control with whom I communicate and how. And no, I don't have a single illegal song on my hard drive.

    (For the record: I make my living as a computer game programmer which means that my income too depends on something governed by "Internet rules" and copyright. My games are pirated all over the Net, and yet we in our company still manage to make money and put the roof over our heads. Piracy is transforming the traditional retail sale model into something different, and the same thing needs to happen to recorded music if it is going to stay alive in something even resembling the current situation. The more "you young people are all guilty and I hate your generation and your dubstep"-articles respected artists put out, the less there is chance of this happening, and the more bad blood it will create in my generation).

    Edit: as for proper solutions, I have none. I really wish I had. Demonizing the people you're supposed to market your product to isn't one, though.
     
  8. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Tell that to the Beatles, Alan Parsons, and many others who sold millions of records and never toured.
     
  9. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    If that actually worked, then you could listen to a song once and then it's in your brain and you never need to copy it.
     
  10. mal paso

    mal paso Banned

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    Are you telling me books and music are the same thing, and are enjoyed in the same way?



    That's weird
     
  11. J-man

    J-man Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    That's not the reality for most, even those signed to major labels. The band's cut from each unit sold is usually a few pennies.
     
  12. Revv23

    Revv23 Friend of Leo's

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    I dunno when i was younger and napster was rampant i didnt have a car to get cd's and the radio sucked and i didnt have money to buy a song anyways.

    Now a days im doing quite a bit better and i buy music on itunes or stream it with sirius, pandora, and spotify.

    I wouldn't be supporting the bands i do right now if i hadnt had that early exposure that the internet gave to me.

    Ive heard a great deal of ranting and raving about this issue i my life, and im not sure how people get so worked up... People act like we are fighting a war or something.

    Seems to me like record companies are doing just fine, and that most kids grow up.

    Sent from my iPhone using TDPRI
     
  13. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Oh...wrong kind of pirate.
     
  14. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    lots of emotion here... half the posts either intentionally or unintentionally interpret the laws for making 'mixtapes' or making home recordings.

    a tersely worded admonishment with absolutely zero argument other than 'you are just wrong' is actually the post that got folks to rise to the bait.

    2 things can be equally true: 1) record companies have not been good stewards to music 2) creative people should benefit from their work if people value it.

    Dismissing parts of that are factually incorrect and morally bankrupt (the money has always been in the gigs so it is no big deal to steal the recordings.)

    Stealing from the artist because the artist is in a disadvantageous relationship with their record company is also poor reasoning and not really defensible.

    Has the 'star making machinery' both created monsters and destroyed an ecosystem of local music and smaller artists and more diverse pools of music? The argument can be made, but the record business and radio are still in their infancy... they are both less than 100 years old... music has been around a lot longer than that... so, we don't know a whole bunch about 'what is best'...

    live music in most places that I have lived have been diminishing since the late 1970's. I get paid less for gigs now than I did in the 80's... and they are harder to get with greater restrictions. The bands I do see seem to be less professional than what I saw in my early 20's and the trend toward 'pay to play' has forced artists to become more business/less art.

    Supporting artists by buying their efforts is not de facto support of record companies. What I want to do is support the music and hope that the artist can find an economic ecosystem that encourages her efforts, I don't want to subsidize artists, I want to support art.

    When the balance is finally struck, I hope that it results in greater art and more diverse art and a time when we can see local music and have plenty of venues to choose from. I don't know how that will happen, but it won't be encouraged by taking things away from artists.
     
  15. J-man

    J-man Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    That isn't what I meant.

    Honestly, I don't know how the industry needs to change, but it does need to change, I don't think things can go back to the way they were before. I want musicians to be able to make a good living as much as anyone else. I certainly wasn't trying to justify piracy.
     
  16. mal paso

    mal paso Banned

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    I agree with J-man again
     
  17. stevehyphen

    stevehyphen Tele-Meister

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    I like the irony. :D
    I know many people who would say the same thing. Funny how that works.
     
  18. greggorypeccary

    greggorypeccary Friend of Leo's

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    A lot of people seem to have short term memories (or are young and don't really know the history), where "like before" means 1995.

    I like how it was before the mass consolidation of labels into the three (?) that exist today. I'm talking about the 30's-60's where you had regional labels and specialty labels like Chess, Motown, Stax, Atlantic, etc. (yes, artists did get screwed then, and this is sort of an idealized view, but...) Labels were run by people who liked music and if they heard an artist they liked, and thought they could make a buck, they'd sign them. Or even if they didn't get the music, but saw that a band had a good local following, they'd take a chance.

    Once the larger labels started buying the smaller ones, and money men, instead of music men took charge, it was all downhill. Now they are just looking for the latest 15 year old on Youtube to sign so they can make some easy money this quarter.

    I'm hoping the future brings more artists putting out their own stuff and collectives of artists pooling their resources into some sort of co-op.
     
  19. Bill  Hullett

    Bill Hullett Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    Uncle!!!!!!

    I've been a studio musician for 30+ years and have had a very nice life afforded to me by way of the music business.

    I don't think any of my equally talented children will have even a glimps of a living from music , like they saw our household enjoy the whole time they were growing up.

    I've spent my energy and opinions long ago on this forum and others trying to explain why any of you with musical asperations of succsess might not want to throw away the baby with the bath water (ie: the Music Business is a two part word.... ) separate the two and you have nothing more than $50 a night gigs and homemade CDs that you try selling for $5 and end up giving half away out of frustration...

    And I agree with GetBent....It never was or has been about making yourself a copy to play in the car.... (If you guys were in the music business you'd know that musicians get a check ((albeit small))from the sale of blank media) Its about waiting a year for your favorite band to release their new record that they put a piece of their life into and having a little weasle thro it up on the net so the world can get it for free two days after its been released...

    It's ironic.... an internet page full of musicians stealing from musicians...

    I guess why they call it music pirates?!

    Bill Hullett
     
  20. BMusic

    BMusic Tele-Meister

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    Maybe people shouldn't get paid anything for making music. Maybe that's what we're moving toward. Or maybe only a few should.

    It wasn't that long ago that there were only two kinds of music: the kind enjoyed by kings and aristocrats (say, an opera commissioned by a duke), and the kind made by families at gatherings (including tribes with their drums).

    At some point (and I know I'm oversimplifying here), the rich realized that they could get richer by taking the commoners' music and selling it back to them.

    I guess what I'm saying is: if you like music, go make some. It's meant to be a way of communicating with your community, is it not? Go join in that conversation, but for pleasure, for connection. And make your money doing something else.

    (I should state, for the record, that I'm against thievery in all its forms. And that I have an equally groundbreaking perspective on the abortion debate, which I will of course save for the appropriate thread :)
     
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