Good guitars with laminate bodies

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srblue5

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You could spend £5000 and get a guitar you don't like playing.
This.☝️

As a naive teen, I was convinced by a (rather manipulative, in hindsight) salesperson to "upgrade" my "mediocre" mid-level Martin (which may have been a partly laminate build but I didn't know the specs back then) with my leftover scholarship money for a boutique acoustic that was supposedly better than any vintage or modern Martin. I'm assuming at that price (probably close to $3500) that it was all solid wood but it was basically a guitar-shaped piece of furniture. The worst, most uninspiring guitar I have ever played. Tried hard to work with it (especially since the shop's 14-day return policy suddenly didn't exist when I brought it back 4 days after I bought it, citing my concerns) but when I finally traded it in years later, it sat in a store for well over a year. Yep, everybody knew it was a POS.

just say no to laminate guitars.
I seem to recall in an interview where one of Bill Collings' first guitars was a Gibson Dove that he absolutely hated and later got a laminate Guild that he thought sounded way better. I don't have the link (so don't quote me on that) and to each their own, but I reckon Bill knew a thing or two about acoustic guitars. Ditto for Bert Jansch.

I definitely love my all-solid acoustic guitars at home but the all-laminate Gibson J-160E has a unique thing going for it (though it's admittedly not to everyone's taste) and the Lâg and Guild acoustics I mentioned impressed me enough that I still think about buying one of them to this day.
 

PhredE

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The key is the top...always go with the solid top, but laminate back and sides are fine if done well. One would be hard pressed to notice the difference between an all solid vs a solid top with laminate back and sides. In fact, there are some really great Takamine guitars out there being played by legends that were solid tops only....Springsteen, Glenn Frey, etc.
Agree and add that design and preparation of the bridge and saddle are also super important too.

Another point that only has only been brushed upon is that the term 'laminate' can be more than just one thing. Other forum members had pointed out to me quite a while ago that companies such as Yairi constructed their own 'sandwich' laminate using as few as 3 layers. These could be strong, robust and sound great in the right guitar.

Having said all that, if I have a choice, I'll opt for the solid wood guitar if all other things are about equal.
 

Dan German

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Am I wrong in thinking the vast majority of perfectly good acoustic guitars are solid top/laminate back & sides? Virtually every acoustic I’ve played is exactly that. Many of those were far beyond my budget. For the record, I’ve also played some guitars with laminate tops that were pretty good, but I would avoid it if possible (in a flat-top—archtops are a different story).
 

Milspec

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Agree and add that design and preparation of the bridge and saddle are also super important too.

Another point that only has only been brushed upon is that the term 'laminate' can be more than just one thing. Other forum members had pointed out to me quite a while ago that companies such as Yairi constructed their own 'sandwich' laminate using as few as 3 layers. These could be strong, robust and sound great in the right guitar.

Having said all that, if I have a choice, I'll opt for the solid wood guitar if all other things are about equal.
I choose solid wood tops and backs, but not picky about the sides in a players grade instrument. If I am shopping for my dream guitar, then all hardwoods would be my preference for no logical reason than either the perception of higher quality...even if it wasn't true.
 

geordief

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Random acoustic comparison.


Well I guessed 2,1, 3 from best to worst.
So I heard the Martin as " best" ,followed by the Ibanez and then the Ovation.

That accorded with what I expected (and conventional wisdom?)

I don't have a good ear but I play just for myself and I think perhaps my expectations or sound quality would differ from someone who plsys in public.

Would that be a large consideration generally?
 

Milspec

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yes, you are wrong., these are cheap low- and middleclass instruments only.
Could not disagree more with this claim. Sound gets created by vibrations, mainly from the top wood, the sides offer no real addition to the sound. Sure, it might be a measurable response, but not by the human ear. The only purpose of the sides are to hold the guitar together, it is just the structure and laminate sides are harder, more resistant to temperature / humidity changes, etc. If you visit any stage in the world, you will find a lot of laminate side guitars...they do not equate to low quality instruments.
 

Dan German

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yes, you are wrong., these are cheap low- and middleclass instruments only.
Ah, so we’re going to bring class into it…

I was, of course, being disingenuous, and my question was a rhetorical one. If you require solid back and sides for a guitar to please you, that’s fine, but to be dismissive of strategic use of laminates is silly.

I will spend a fair bit of time today playing my “cheap low- and middleclass instruments,” a Takamine 12 string with laminate sides and back, and *gasp* the horror! an all-laminate Godin archtop. For fun, I might get really lower-class and play my electric baritone with a plywood body. :p
 

Filmosound 621

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... the sides offer no real addition to the sound...

I was talking about the top and back of the guitar mainly, not about the sides.

the two Parlors I have at home are pretty similar size wise, the solid guitar has got a full round tone to it
and resonates as a complete instrument. The laminate back / sides guitar does not sound as full and does not resonate
besides the top. I will not buy anything with laminated back ( and sides ) again.
Home playing with no amplification.
 

Milspec

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I was talking about the top and back of the guitar mainly, not about the sides.

the two Parlors I have at home are pretty similar size wise, the solid guitar has got a full round tone to it
and resonates as a complete instrument. The laminate back / sides guitar does not sound as full and does not resonate
besides the top. I will not buy anything with laminated back ( and sides ) again.
Home playing with no amplification.
I agree on the laminate tops...I would not buy any of those for the limitations noted. I still can't accept the laminate sides causing a lesser quality of sound though. I have several of both and just do not find that difference. Maybe it is just my hearing, but it has never been noticeable to me. Some will say that preamp installed in the side of the guitar also ruins the sound...never heard the difference, the sides just do not add much to the resonance of a guitar.

There are just too many excellent players out there that used laminate side guitars to convince me that they were inferior. Always like Glenn Fry's sound with the Eagles and that was a Takamine with laminate sides. He also played some nice solid wood Martins, but they both sounded great to my ears.

Oh well, we just disagree. You may have better hearing that me...Lord knows mine has declined over the years. I just don't think it is fair to condemn a laminate sides guitar to the realm of being a cheap guitar that should be avoided.
 

Monoprice99

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One of the biggest reasons I went with Ovation's Lyrichord was that the bowl itself would be more consistent to humidity & temperature changes. That all wood construction of the other brands is prone to expansion & contraction, therefore cracking for more extreme changes in humidity & temperature. My theory on laminate vs solid top is that, like a drum, the soundboard is going to be stronger with the laminate construction, also tuned like a drum head for that tension. Remind anyone, that the Ovation tops, laminate or solid are grades of Sitka Spruce, just like any other brand uses for their tiered price point of product line. I just think that Ovation doesn't use any inferior quality of Sitka Spruce than any other all wood brand. And I also found that once I dialed in the set up on the entry level price point Applause even, that it sounded markedly better. Strings closer to the top & opening of the sound hole than higher string action height. Just me, but set up matters for acoustic guitars as much as it does for any electric guitar.

And then there's always the finish on the acoustic top, nitro lacquer vs the hated polyurethane on any guitar. So everything about the Applause that I have for all intents should be a lousy overbuilt acoustic guitar ? It's polyurethane finished with a laminate top & a lyrichord/plastic bowl. Yet the guitar sounds quite good. For $ 175 preowned, $ 350ish MSRP in it's year of manufacture. The one thing I love about the laminate top, it thumps percussively to thumb & finger tapping. It's not a dull thump, it's articulately crisp like a Cajon drum. That's the Sitka Spruce rather than MDF or some other particle board for wood & glue. What I'd like to try out with the acoustic, install a snare like a Cajon drum has. And then one might even add a shoe shaker/foot tambourine, even add a harmonica like Neil Young uses too. The possibilities are endless for enhancing a performance. It's all about the player with an acoustic guitar, can you be a 1 man band or multi-task for roles, including vocals, pulling all of that off without the audience throwing debris at you & chasing you off stage ?

What I learned about the Ovation bowl sizes, like Ovation engineers learned, they could shape the sound to enhance it with depth from a deep bowl to regular & even the super shallow. How much of that does Bose engineers borrow for concept from Ovation's innovations for enhancing their wave radio speaker(s) ? The super shallow is more articulate than the looser bass boom of their deepest bowls, middle of the road compromise is the mid depth bowl. I wanted a clearer & more articulate output, so that is the one I went after for the super shallow bowl. And a lot of that is taken from orchestra instruments (Violin vs Viola vs Cello) After that it was the choice of Ovation's leaf holes vs traditional single round hole that Ovation also offers for a top. The leaf holes add up to the same volume of a single centered sound hole for a ported sound projection. The leaf holes are less prone to feedback. Obviously the all wood theory has flaws in it, otherwise they wouldn't be making acoustic guitars out of carbon fiber ?
 
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Mr Ridesglide

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Well I own a Martin 000-1R I think is the model. I bought it new from Willies Guitars in 1997 I'm thinking. I added a pickup to it probably in 1999. It's still in the herd. It's still played often at home. It has probably 300 gigs on it. Solid and beautiful Solid Sitka Spruce top. Rosewood laminate sides and back is what I remember.
Love it. I do love my 0M-28 more, but I love the 000
 

robt57

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For me it is simple, outside acoustic that get plugged in [which includes sound hole PU and fishman du jour built in with a BBE sonic maximizer] laminated, even the top is fine with me. I am a wood worker and could not bring myself to subject 'especially' an all wood old acoustic to humidity swings. Folks listening aren't paying for my acoustics.

Inside totally acoustic use, at least a solid top. And for 12 strings that would be cedar. Again, and as stated by some, just what 'my' ears hear. The folk that listened never critiqued, but it has been forever since I have played in front of anyone too.
 

uriah1

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Many K. Yairi guitars use laminates.
The laminates they use are high quality woods, not the sort of laminate you buy at the local hardware store.

Yamaha have a reputation for make good sounding laminate acoustics.
ya. I had a pretty nice Yamaha..I should have kept
 

Tim E

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One of the best sounding guitars I ever played had an all laminate body. It was a Minstrel, I believe a brand made by LaSiDo back in 80s. The soundboard looked like the same cherry(?) laminate Seagull used for their back and sides. I didn't buy it because I assumed I could find better. Well, it turns out I could... for a whole lotta more money.

It may have just been a fluke, since the brand seemed to have been discontinued, and the only ones I've seen since then were used in kind of rough shape. Which may be a result of them being low end enough to be considered somewhat expendable. And they just didn't sound at all as exemplary as the one I should have bought.

But there are some very good sounding laminate instruments out there right now. If I were in the market, laminate/solid are simply not a priority at all. What sounds good is. Not to pee in anybody's Cheerios, but I've come across new plywood Yamahas that kick butt on new Martins enough times that I've learned it's not an issue.

When it comes to repairability, on the other hand...
 

Andyfreddy

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I believe the Taylor 100 and 200 series all fit this category.

I love my Taylor 214ce DLX. I’ve also played a 112 I really liked.
 

Jakedog

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I no particular order, you wanna check out:

Alvarez
Yamaha
Seagull
Takamine
Breedlove


If I had to buy a new acoustic to perform with tomorrow, and had to buy brand new and keep it under $1500, I’d just order a Yamaha.
 
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