Godin archtop goes sharp. Any ideas?

Discussion in 'Other Guitars, other instruments' started by thelowerlip, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. thelowerlip

    thelowerlip Tele-Afflicted

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    upload_2018-4-16_10-41-32.jpeg
    I like this guitar a lot but it does have tuning issues. It tends to go sharp rather quickly. This happens on all the strings, though the lighter gauge strings seem to be worse. Also, the instability almost seems like a floating bridge, as far as the strings effecting one another during bends and just in general.



    Are there inherent tuning issues with archtops?
     
  2. Paul in Colorado

    Paul in Colorado Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Intonation? Tuners?
     
  3. HolyTele Tube

    HolyTele Tube TDPRI Member

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    Bridge placement? Or proper fitting of the bridge to the body?
     
  4. Random1643

    Random1643 Tele-Afflicted

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    I've owned different instruments from the extended Godin family. (Currently own a >great< 2005 Simon & Patrick Woodland Parlor.) They've been super responsive/helpful via email troubleshooting issues & opportunities. This guy, Michel, has helped me out a few times dealing, in a couple of cases, in detailed technical info:

    Michel Belanger
    Support Clients/Customer Support
    Guitares Godin/Godin Guitars
    info@godinguitars.com
     
  5. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I would guess the strings get caught on the nut or saddles. Friction
     
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  6. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    This. Unless you have a broken or loose tuner (rare) tuning issues relate to the nut or saddles.
     
  7. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    But I would think that would result in going flat not sharp...? Say you stretch a string, it pulls over the nut or bridge while stretched resulting in a longer string between the nut and bridge. Then you let go and it doesnt slide back. Looser=Flat
     
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  8. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Is it possible the bridge just floats on the top and is getting pushed/sliding up or down?
     
  9. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Tightening strings makes them go sharper. Not sure where the string would get looser in your example. It's binding in the nut. So it stays stretched, i.e., sharp.
     
  10. RomanS

    RomanS Poster Extraordinaire

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    Nope - stretched string = longer = flat.
     
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  11. DavidP

    DavidP Friend of Leo's

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    FYI, the Kingpins have floating bridges. I have a Kingpin II (same as in the above pic) but have yet to experience tuning problems using D'Addario Jazz Lights (12-52) -- what gauge are you using?
     
  12. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Makes total sense. I'm not an expert on setups whatsoever, so ymmv.

    But imagine this. There is a friction problem at the nut. When you tune the guitar, there's more tension between the nut and the tuner than between the nut and the bridge (sposed to be equal). Then you bend the string, dragging a portion of the string over the nut, it settles back, and the tensions are not the same as before the bend. maybe they are closer to equal, so, too taut from the headstock end is now too taut between the nut and the bridge.

    Kinda just spitballin' here, but it makes some sense if I twist my neck this way o_O
     
  13. RomanS

    RomanS Poster Extraordinaire

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    When you bend the string, you drag a bit of it from the headstock towards the fretboard - and if the nut is too tight, that extra bit will stay there - so the string is now looser (NOT tighter) between nut and bridge, than it was before. So it now sounds flat...
     
  14. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    "Are there inherent tuning issues with archtops?"
    I wonder, is it possible th OP is hearing accompanying notes from the tailpiece-to-the-bridge section that makes him think it's sharp? I had one trapeze tailpiece hollow archtop that the strings rung terrible, non harmonic, notes in that area. A piece of cloth woven in there stopped it.
     
  15. screamin eagle

    screamin eagle Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'm thinking the bridge might be moving. What gauge strings? If they're light, there might not be enough downward pressure to keep it still. Some double sided tape would fix that--just make sure you put it in the right place. Or increase your string gauge.
     
  16. cabra velha

    cabra velha Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    It has to be the bridge wandering around.
     
  17. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's

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    What do you mean by "go sharp?"

    If the guitar is in tune when you start, but then gradually drifts sharp as you play, the obvious culprit is the body warming up and expanding. It's inherent in the design.

    It's also conceivable that your pickups are too close to the strings and causing "stratitis." This would be more pronounced as you moved up the neck, because the strings would be closer to the pickups


    If the strings go sharp as you move up the neck, then it might be a bridge position issue. Move the bridge to fix the intonation. If the bridge moves too easily in ordinary playing, then you need to increases the down-force on the bridge. Heavier strings would work. Or higher action. Beyond that you would need a neck reset. That seems extremely unlikely to me
     
  18. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I to have that same guitar (one of my favorites actually) and have not had any tuning issues at all once set-up properly. It sounds to be like the bridge is moving on you, are you changing the strings one at a time to keep tension on the bridge? That will help a lot if you are not presently doing it that way. Are you keeping it in the TRIC case or a different case? My Epiphone Riviera came with a Gibson case that was just a little too shallow for a Bigsby-equipped guitar. When I closed the case, it pushed down on the Bigsby and caused distortion to the set-up.

    The entire line of Godin guitars are very stable when in comes to consistent tuning so there is a problem there that is not normal. They use Tusq nuts so it isn't going to be binding...check that bridge.
     
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