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GnR Chinese Democracy

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Capel, Nov 20, 2008.

  1. Capel

    Capel Tele-Holic

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    It's here!! I've got one!!!! Rang my local Sanity to see if they were gonna open sunday so I could buy Chinese Democracy, or if I could pick up a copy at closing time saturday & the thursday nite junior who answered the phone says to me "they're available now".... hauled ass down there as she was putting them on the shelf - (different) girl behind the cash register says "they're not available yet", I point to it on the shelf, she blames the computer & sells me a copy... they may be puling them back off the shelf today, I'll have to go past & see:lol:

    Anyways.... was it worth the wait??? I'm in the middle of my 1st listen to it, it's good, but nothings jumping out at me so far... I would rate it as better than Death Magnetic but not as good as Black Ice.
     
  2. kingnimrod

    kingnimrod Tele-Holic

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    you can listen to it on myspace. I think overall it's pretty bad, and wonder if all of the positive reviews are come sort of collusion to raise CD sales back from the grave (at least at best buy).

    It's over-produced and schizo in a bad way, and does not stand up as a cohesive album.

    I'll admit I've never been the biggest fan of GNR, but I think Axl made a big mistake by waiting so long to put this out. Most of his original fans have moved on, and to my ears it already sounds dated, so unlikely to win new fans.

    Over the top studio wankery. It sounds like Meatloaf fronting Slipknot on digital steroids....
     
  3. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    Does anyone on earth other than Axl want a techno GnR?
     
  4. ghosttour

    ghosttour Former Member

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    +1. Even if the die-hard fans had been waiting anxiously for the album to come out for the last - what, 15 years - how could it posssibly live up to their heightened expectations after all this time? It could be a freakin' FANTASTIC record, and after waiting 15 years it would probably still disappoint somehow. GNR were great in their own way, in their own time - but that time is past. :neutral:
     
  5. GhostofJohnToad

    GhostofJohnToad Tele-Afflicted

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    Just listened to a clip for "Better" on the GNR website out of curiosity. I will first say I was a huge "Appetite for Destruction" fan. Boy was that song a stinker. It almost sounded like every other lyric was cut and pasted very badly. I think the only good thing about it, is every one in America will at least get a free Dr. Pepper.
     
  6. T_red7882

    T_red7882 Tele-Afflicted

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    I just finished listening to it, and i can confidently say that it's completely terrible, horrible, not worth listening to.

    final though on GNR: Slash made that band.
     
  7. leonard d rock

    leonard d rock Tele-Afflicted

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    I agree 100%. Some bands can change guitar players and be more successful but GnR sound belonged to slash. it was his personality that formed the music. AXl's contribution was his antics and stage presence- non-musical elements. Even if he wrote a lot of the songs, it was slash who made them GNR. just my 2 cents worth.

    ldr
     
  8. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    No. I mean, if it was all Slash, wouldn't Velvet Revolver (and Slash solo) be a lot better? Axl basically wrote the melodies, so that's a big musical contribution. I know a guy who was there with GnR and currently works for Velvet Revolver, and he was going on about this to me a few months back. He also thinks a classic GnR reunion is inevitable. The money is just too big. I said, "Yeah, but Axl is going to have to go through the failure of 'Chinese Democracy' first."
     
  9. T_red7882

    T_red7882 Tele-Afflicted

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    It wasn't all slash no, but he made the band complete, he provided that extra something to axl's songwriting that made it spectacular.
     
  10. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    Absolutely. It was a band. It's missing now missing some of the elemental ingredients that made it great.
     
  11. tiktok

    tiktok Poster Extraordinaire

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    Personally, I thought the whole AFD lineup was essential, since the band started to suck mightily as soon as that was disrupted.
     
  12. Blazer

    Blazer Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    What made "Appetite" such a great rock album was that it was made by a bunch of young punks who weren't really that good of musicians, Slash himself said that when it comes to guitar techniques he's just glad to know how to tune his guitar and that the Marshall amp and Gibson Les Paul combo guarantees a good sound.

    Keep in mind that that album came out in the Hairmetal days, but GNR were not a band decked in spandex singing "Baby, baby" in their songs with their guitarists being two Eddie Van Halen rip-offs. They were young punks who lived in poverty, doing drugs and dating the wrong kind of women, which is what the album was about. It's a primal roar from young punks trying to find their niche in the world. Their musicianship was avarage but they compensated that by sheer intensity.

    Axl Rose seems to have forgotten about that completely, he hires the best musicians he can find, writes these long eleborate songs and just goes back to re-record and overdub and cut-and-paste. In "Use your illusion" that resulted in some very nice results, I still love songs like "Estranged" eventhough it was so far removed from the raw Punch-in-your-face songs from "Appetite" Even the ballad "Sweet Child of mine" was rough, spikey and full of "**** you" attitude.

    I still wear the "Appitite" Banner proudly on the wall of my appartment (and wearing the "Appitite" T-shirt as we speak, I know Slash's riffs by heart with "Use your illusion" being my "how-to-play-rock-guitar" course and much of my teenage years were spend learning to play along with those songs. I really put my nose to the grindstone to improve as a player thanks to GNR. But they lost me when Slash left. I heard that they were gonna hire Zakk Wylde to replace him (they did but only very briefly) but while I have HUGE respect for Zakk Wylde, his precision playing and liquidly fluid phrasing would be no replacement for the sloppy, frenzied swagger that Slash added to the band.

    Axl doesn't get it, he's just one fifth of what made GNR so succesful, a sum of the parts that made up the band. I hate "Chinese democracy" because of the lack of swagger, the rawness is gone, no Slash playing whatever he wants to play, no Izzy providing the acidic lyrics and the backbeat rythm style that was clearly his own, no Duff playing Ronny Lane style basswork in a punkrock way, no Steven Adler with his "meat-and-potatoes" drumwork, just Axl.

    As for "Chinese Democracy" being better than Metallica's "Death magnetic", when I brought along my copy of "Death Magnetic" to a party and we put it on, everybody agreed that it sounded like a Metallica album a TRUE Metallica album, it had everything we loved of the pre "Load" era Metallica: Songs in normal tuning, fast frenzied riffs, James Hetfield's voice sounding pissed off again and a good thunderous bass sound. Metallica went back to sounding like "Metallica" which is a feat that Axl Rose failed to pull off.

    BUT, let's have a look to what "Chinese Democracy" could have been if Slash and the others were granted more input by Axl when the sessions began fifteen years ago. Slash brought forwards a lot of rocking tunes as did Duff, they were pushed aside by Axl and were subsiquently released on Slash's Snakepit "It's five O' clock somewhere" and on Duff's solo album "believe in me"

    Here's what "Chinese democracy" could have been.




     
  13. teledude66

    teledude66 Friend of Leo's

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    I dug the first video, it confirms in my mind that Matt Sorum is probably the coolest drummer going today.
     
  14. andromeda673

    andromeda673 Tele-Meister

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    I hate GNR, I have no personal attachment to any of it. Mainly because I hear nothing but the same 4 GNR songs on the radio, I'm over GNR, over Axel and his antics, his attitude, and his "it's not good enough for me attitude"

    I think slash made the right decision, I think axel is overrated, and way too into his self.

    I know my opinion is strong, but thats just how I feel
     
  15. Post Toastie

    Post Toastie Poster Extraordinaire

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    Cant wait for the next GnR album in 2023, bet that will be even better?
     
  16. Geoff738

    Geoff738 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Moderate GnR fan here. Have AfD on vinyl, but thought they were too bloated by the time the Illusion cds came out. Never saw them live.

    Reading what I just wrote - I'm more an AfD fan than the gunners, methinks.

    Anyways, was interested enough in the new one - well curious might be a better word than interested - to play the first few tunes on their myspace page.

    My verdict? It's a bit more varied texturally than I thought it might be - the techno influence mentioned above, nylon string guitar on the fourth or fifth tune. Some of it still kinda rocks. I dunno why, but I thought it would be all power ballads or something.

    It's not bad. But it's not very good either. Nothing made me go, ugh, that's awful. But nothing made me sit up and say - gotta have that song. Through the first half dozen songs, none have stood out. i just heard 'em and I can't remember any of them at all. Not a single hook stands in my head.

    It's all competent. Just not memorable.

    Cheers,
    Geoff

    PS - I'm old. Please take that into account! Would like to find a newish "loud" cd that knocks me out - maybe the new one by Boris?
     
  17. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    I agree. Matt Sorum may technically be a great drummer, but he's too mechanical for me. I thought that for all of Steven Adler's faults, the band sounded better with him in it.
     
  18. Guitar_Ninja

    Guitar_Ninja Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    While Axl's the one who always got the spotlight IMO it was Izzy who made that band what it was. He was the best songwriter in the group, and he's been out of it for 15+ years now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2008
  19. tiktok

    tiktok Poster Extraordinaire

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    Axl was like, 1/10 of the band's appeal. And each of the other guys was ten percent, and the combination of them all was another 50%.
     
  20. Veitchy

    Veitchy Tele-Afflicted

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    Saw them live last year. They played some new stuff and it was average. I really think that Axl is trying to overcompensate with the types of musicians hes shanghied.
     
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