Glad I bought a MIA Tele and not a MIM

[tele_jas]

MIM instruments are good, and some are equally as good as MIA.

But, once you own an MIA and play it for a while, you notice the differences and realize there's a reason they're priced 2X as much = Because they're worth it.

Not dogging on MIM, those are fine too.. But, it's like the difference between a $40,000 Camaro and a $100,000 Corvette. Both are nice, just depends on what you want?

Now, in saying ALL of that... My MIM Road Worn Brad Paisley Tele is my #1 guitar. It's light and sounds amazing... but when I pick up my MIA 52 AVRI Hotrod, I can feel the difference.

 

[holgaguy]

Purchased a MIA American Special Tele about ten years as I wanted made in America / California and several years prior to that
bought a new MIM Telecaster and none of the screws in the guitar body would hold , the wood was so soft it was like saw dust .
Here is a pic from the Ensenada Mexico plant of bodies , I am counting 7 pieces of wood and also see laminates . I would hope the MIA
are no more than 3-4 pieces with no laminate , the MIM have to save money somewhere .

I've owned multiple MIM Tele and Strats had never had this issue. I've owned one MIA and I don't miss it at all.

 

[brudford]

People drone on and on about how the player and Indonesian models are equal - they’re delusional and drank the Cool-aid. I will admit that from time to time a guitar comes together that is more than the sum of its parts (I own a 88 MIK squire ii that’s one of my best players). The reality is import guitars are made because they are cheap. So therefore everything about them inferior to its flagship counterpart. We don’t know for sure (because we can’t see fender/Epiphone/PRS’s books) - when you buy an import guitar you are most likely also supporting unfair labor practices. Why else would they move it over seas ? Because they don’t have to pay a high wage Sherlock.
Not to mention you are buying in essence a counterfeit version of an iconic model. Whenever someone buys one, they strengthen this low quality high return business model and cheapen the brand name. For a few bucks more (wait and save your money), you can have a lifetime American instrument that will hold its value. This does not apply to kids starting out, but any adult w a decent job should not be supporting these practices. I for one will not buy and import guitar if it’s not acquired through a trade.

Great points : Yes counterfeit , Fender has a long and storied history with Leo Fender's creation , MIA is a real Fender any Fender not made in America is nothing more than a knock-off . It is not the fact that anyone has bought a MIM Fender most have their reasons but to come on a forum and pretend that they are anywhere near the quality of American made is just delusional thinking .

Not to mention third world factories disregard for the environment with their factory applications , but to be fair all the big makers are making some of their guitar models in third worlds . I am from Pa and bought a Martin OM-21 about 15 years ago and proud
to have a guitar made by them . Martin does make some of their guitars in Mexico and I would never go on the Martin discussion
group and say that my Mexican Martin is a great guitar and almost as good as a made in Pa Martin , it is not . Last year I bought a Fender / Squire
Mustang Bass for my own backing tracks and I'am not really a Bass player and it is made in Indonesia , not to bad for $400
but still overpriced and I am not going to go on the Bass Talk Forum and try to convince anyone this Bass is anywhere near the quality of a MIA Fender Bass Mustang .

 

[northernguitar]

People drone on and on about how the player and Indonesian models are equal - they’re delusional and drank the Cool-aid. I will admit that from time to time a guitar comes together that is more than the sum of its parts (I own a 88 MIK squire ii that’s one of my best players). The reality is import guitars are made because they are cheap. So therefore everything about them inferior to its flagship counterpart. We don’t know for sure (because we can’t see fender/Epiphone/PRS’s books) - when you buy an import guitar you are most likely also supporting unfair labor practices. Why else would they move it over seas ? Because they don’t have to pay a high wage Sherlock.
Not to mention you are buying in essence a counterfeit version of an iconic model. Whenever someone buys one, they strengthen this low quality high return business model and cheapen the brand name. For a few bucks more (wait and save your money), you can have a lifetime American instrument that will hold its value. This does not apply to kids starting out, but any adult w a decent job should not be supporting these practices. I for one will not buy and import guitar if it’s not acquired through a trade.

All the parent companies work with labour practice demands. And your counterfeit argument is pure fiction. A license to produce is just that, and Fender, Gibson, PRS and others all have opened these lines to offer a more affordable instrument.

 

[MichaelD83]

All the parent companies work with labour practice demands. And your counterfeit argument is pure fiction. A license to produce is just that, and Fender, Gibson, PRS and others all have opened these lines to offer a more affordable instrument.

Not to get political but it is naive to believe that sort of thing. Have you ever encountered an HR department or American union - do you think their practices are fair or ethical Cmon man

 

[MichaelD83]

All the parent companies work with labour practice demands. And your counterfeit argument is pure fiction. A license to produce is just that, and Fender, Gibson, PRS and others all have opened these lines to offer a more affordable instrument.

Billy gibbons ain’t playing a player tele or classic vibe - that’s because they’re inferior.

 

[northernguitar]

Not to get political but it is naive to believe that sort of thing. Have you ever encountered an HR department or American union - do you think their practices are fair or ethical Cmon man

If you have proof of unfair labour practices at said companies, provide it.

 

[northernguitar]

Billy gibbons ain’t playing a player tele or classic vibe - that’s because they’re inferior.

Billy Gibbons doesn’t pay for his guitars. And I don’t need an endorsement to know a good guitar in my hands.

 

[MichaelD83]

If you have proof of unfair labour practices at said companies, provide it.

I bet anyone here can testify. That’s like believing Starbucks coffee is fair trade. I don’t have to prove anything. Enjoy your guitar

 

[MichaelD83]

Billy Gibbons doesn’t pay for his guitars. And I don’t need an endorsement to know a good guitar in my hands.

True but he ain’t playing imports - he’s a musician and knows they are inferior

 

[northernguitar]

True but he ain’t playing imports - he’s a musician and knows they are inferior

Billy Gibbons has a few notable guitars with Japanese connections. One is the Tokai LS-60 Love Rock, a 1980 Les Paul copy, which is a highly regarded instrument. Additionally, the Erlewine Chiquita travel guitar, designed by Mark Erlewine and Billy Gibbons in the late 70s, was produced by Hondo, a brand with some Japanese manufacturing.

 

[msalama]

True but he ain’t playing imports - he’s a musician and knows they are inferior

Funny how YOU don't seem to know it, especially after all this incoherent and contrarian ranting of yours here.

If you want a great feeling lifetime strat invest in a MIJ

 

[brudford]

I think Fender should put some of you people on their Marketing Dept. payroll as advertising can create value perceptions . There appears to be a lot of great marketers on this forum for the MIM Fender products by where you are helping to create the perception of great value for an inferior product compared to the MIA guitars . Unfortunatley the Mexican guitars have risen to a cost that is not even
considered to be budget-friendly any longer so how can the MIM guitars be an alternative to a higher priced product ?
By helping Fender
to convince others they are getting a good deal ? Marketers often use advertising to create a perception of value for inferior goods, for example, a company may advertise a lower priced product as a "budget-friendly" alternative to a higher-priced product. This can convince consumers that they are getting a good deal, even if the product is of lower inferior quality. So ask the question why would anyone spend $800-900 on a third world knock-off Telecaster .

 

[badinfinities]

 

[Alaska Mike]

MIM instruments are good, and some are equally as good as MIA.

But, once you own an MIA and play it for a while, you notice the differences and realize there's a reason they're priced 2X as much = Because they're worth it.

Not dogging on MIM, those are fine too.. But, it's like the difference between a $40,000 Camaro and a $100,000 Corvette. Both are nice, just depends on what you want?

Now, in saying ALL of that... My MIM Road Worn Brad Paisley Tele is my #1 guitar. It's light and sounds amazing... but when I pick up my MIA 52 AVRI Hotrod, I can feel the difference.

Production model to production model, I have found I prefer some aspects on MIM guitars to be more to my liking or otherwise unique. For instance:
- The Jason Isbell neck has a '60s C, 7.25" radius, rosewood board, vintage-tall frets, and light relic nitro finish. It also has a headstock truss rod adjust. Is there a MIA production equivalent?
- The chambered ash/mahogany Player IIs. My mahogony Player II is my lightest Tele by well over a pound. Is there a MIA production equivalent?

I like modding and swapping to create instruments that, while very much are established Fender spec, combine features/colors that Fender does not offer together in the same model. I did this even with my MIA Fenders- except for my Ultra and Acoustasonic, which were never going to be the guitar for me.

I really wanted to like my surf green AVII '63 more than my sonic blue Vintera II '60s (apples to apples), but after the newness wore off I was grabbing the Vintera II again. I think there was 1/4lb weight difference between them. Ignoring the $1000 price difference (both below MAP) and treating them as another Telecaster on the rack, I just didn't vibe with the AVII. A well-crafted example, for sure, but I just wasn't feeling it. Maybe if it was Olympic White and a little lighter...

My Ultra was beautiful (tops bound, Texas Tea), but the D shaped neck gave me hand cramps after extended playing. The whole package felt a little too sterile to me for a Telecaster. I really couldn't get used to all of the body cuts. There really wasn't anything I could do to make the guitar right for me.

My American Professional I is a guitar I like a lot of things about, but still had some things I couldn't get past. The neck is like 75% there for me. I love the rosewood and vintage tall frets. The 9.5" radius wasn't bad. The tuners I could easily swap for ClassicGears. The finish I like over the ProIIs rough satin. However, the Deep C was just a little too full for me- kinda like a U. Sanding it down would kill resale. The body with its proprietary bridge design just was not my thing. There isn't anything glaringly wrong with the guitar, but design choices taken in the aggregate made it not for me.

I have had three American Professionals and an American Special. Eventually I figured out I wasn't a jumbo frets or satin finish neck guy, although the carve and tuners were great. The body has all of the characteristics I like, so I have held back a vintage white body. That's all that remains of the original guitar, as an Isbell neck, Lollar pickups, Callaham bridge, swapped electronics, and a bunch of small bits have replaced the stock parts. It's a great Telecaster, but it isn't what rolled out of Corona.

None of this is to say the MIJ and MIM guitars that replaced them were perfect. They got swapped around just as much to suit my tastes- maybe more. But at the end of the day, I just gravitated to them more than I did the MIA production stuff. A lot of this comes down to design choices made by FMIC to delineate the country of origin production tiers rather than the quality of the craftsmanship or raw materials. My Vintera II and Isbell necks are just as well finished as any of my MIA necks were when it comes to frets, shaping, and fine-tuning. I have seen more issues on the Player IIs, but FMIC is cranking them out in exponentially higher numbers and allowing for less hand time. Says less about the raw materials and skill of the workforce and more about FMIC's bean counters.

Bodies? These days it usually comes down to the selection of the body blank wood for weight and/or grain, and not how many pieces are glued together. Most painted bodies have more pieces than transparent/translucent finishes, and you'd never know with the painting/shielding in the cavities. My MIJ alder bodies are lighter and have tighter wood grain (tree selection) than my MIA alder bodies, likely due to the curing methods used and age. A couple have four or more (hard to be 100% sure) pieces, yet somehow are resonant and durable. I have zero issues with my chambered Player II body in terms of raw materials or workmanship.

There was a time I really didn't like Ensenada products, but that has passed. I don't think they're perfect, but I don't find the Corona stuff perfect either. They are what FMIC programs them to be. As consumers and ultimately players, its our job to navigate what they sell and make our own informed choices. MIA is not necessarily better. It is more expensive, though.

 

[MichaelD83]

Funny how YOU don't seem to know it, especially after all this incoherent and contrarian ranting of yours here.

Like this one ? Destiny had that it was reduced from a music store fire and in the closing liquidation sale

 

[Alaska Mike]

I think Fender should put some of you people on their Marketing Dept. payroll as advertising can create value perceptions . There appears to be a lot of great marketers on this forum for the MIM Fender products by where you are helping to create the perception of great value for an inferior product compared to the MIA guitars . Unfortunatley the Mexican guitars have risen to a cost that is not even
considered to be budget-friendly any longer so how can the MIM guitars be an alternative to a higher priced product ?
By helping Fender
to convince others they are getting a good deal ? Marketers often use advertising to create a perception of value for inferior goods, for example, a company may advertise a lower priced product as a "budget-friendly" alternative to a higher-priced product. This can convince consumers that they are getting a good deal, even if the product is of lower inferior quality. So ask the question why would anyone spend $800-900 on a third world knock-off Telecaster .

If you look, a lot of us did hit back in January-March at the cash-grab that is the Indonesian Fender Standard Series. It could have been a very respectable guitar for less money, as Cortek has the capability of producing, but FMIC loves to maximize profits on the back of a sticker. We had the same response when they released the Chinese-made Fender Modern Player series. Not a question of country of origin, but of value for the money.

I bought my Vintera II and Player II before the latest price increase that was driven by things we aren't supposed to talk about. Made in a Fender-owned and managed factory spitting distance from their Corona factory, which share common raw material and component sources. Workforce trained for decades by Fender, finally allowed the room to build better guitars. More to Ensenada than one line, and it's a bigger and more modern factory than Corona. The guitars they make would be at least $400 more expensive if built in California.

There was a time when you would have likely called Japan third-world (maybe you still do). Yet somehow even the CBS-Fender employees openly admitted that FujiGen Gakki made a better Fender product than they did. CBS-Fender and later FMIC placed certain restrictions on their MIJ contractors to prop up the perception of Fullerton/Corona products, just like they do with Cortek and Ensenada. It's not a question of capability. It's a question of what FMIC will allow them to produce.

Great guitars can be made anywhere with today's manufacturing processes, global markets, and a reasonable amount of training. That doesn't mean they are allowed to be made everywhere, based mostly on dated market perceptions of value and craftsmanship- such as the ones you perpetuate.

 

[notmyusualuserid]

Great points : Yes counterfeit , Fender has a long and storied history with Leo Fender's creation , MIA is a real Fender any Fender not made in America is nothing more than a knock-off . It is not the fact that anyone has bought a MIM Fender most have their reasons but to come on a forum and pretend that they are anywhere near the quality of American made is just delusional thinking .

Not to mention third world factories disregard for the environment with their factory applications , but to be fair all the big makers are making some of their guitar models in third worlds . I am from Pa and bought a Martin OM-21 about 15 years ago and proud
to have a guitar made by them . Martin does make some of their guitars in Mexico and I would never go on the Martin discussion
group and say that my Mexican Martin is a great guitar and almost as good as a made in Pa Martin , it is not . Last year I bought a Fender / Squire
Mustang Bass for my own backing tracks and I'am not really a Bass player and it is made in Indonesia , not to bad for $400
but still overpriced and I am not going to go on the Bass Talk Forum and try to convince anyone this Bass is anywhere near the quality of a MIA Fender Bass Mustang .

Delusional.

Do you know what you're implying? That anything not made in its country of origin is a fake?

You Yanks are driving around in a lot of fake automobiles.Your playing your real Fenders through a lot of fake amps too

 

[pbenn]

I mean I dont know how old y’all collectively are on this forum, but I am old enough to remember when Fender MIA did this whole decorative veneer thing in the 90s. FMIC really caught flak for it. So much so that they ceased to do it (supposedly)

Foto-Flames?

 

[Alaska Mike]

Delusional.

Do you know what you're implying? That anything not made in its country of origin is a fake?

You Yanks are driving around in a lot of fake automobiles.Your playing your real Fenders through a lot of fake amps too

Makes me giggle.

Leo sold the company to CBS. CBS sold the company (but not the factory or tooling) to FMIC. The factory moved from Fullerton to Corona (during which the only Fenders were being made in Japan). Some of the original tools and equipment are still being used in Fullerton by G&L, Leo's last company before he died.

So aren't the only "real" Fenders made by G&L?

This "logic" baffles me.