Girl from Ipanema

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by slowpinky, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. slowpinky

    slowpinky Tele-Afflicted

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    Rather than derail the OP's mode thread - I thought I'd start anew - the mode thing will come up for sure but - personally I'm not going to bother with modes at all I have talked melody,voice leading, key areas and tonicisation.
    But that doesn’t mean someone else won’t go there.

    Talking modally doesnt exclude chromaticism either –

    I’m just going to talk melody now. Im going to talk about the tones targeted by the melody as being intrinsic to the way this tune voice-leads. So when I mention pairs of notes Im actually referring to the main points in the melody -not every melody note.

    Look at the melodic gravity in the first 8 bars first – it might tell you something about modality in this tune. This tune differs from many other standards in that the A section resolves repeatedly to the fifth , not the tonic. In fact if you follow the melodic framework in the tune - it basically heads from G to C - which in effect creates motion to a tonality of “C”


    Unfortunately I cant seem to get this thing to upload properly - but at the bottom is the melodic outline of the A section - above it (should be below it- is the B section)


    I don’t buy the simplification that this is just 9th to 5th voice leading (although it is. ) (The gravity from the 9th continues in the B section too).
    Jobim has set us up with a melody that outlines a C tonality against a harmony in F tonality.
    As a soloist I always acknowledge this even at a subconscious level on this tune i.e – the tonic has an implicit C/F sound to it because of the melody.The other paradox is that the consonance in the melody is stronger against the G7 than the Fmaj - cool.


    The melody doesn’t resolve to F until the B section which immediately places the tonic note in tension with Gb.

    Jobim was such a mofo composer!

    In the B section there is some really interesting stuff happening - Jobim clouds the tonality even more by finally stating the tonic note F but in context of Gb major – so it has a certain tension. This tension drops to the 3rd of Cb7 (Eb)
    The same thing happens up a tone (Ab to Gb). Then up a semitone – (A to G )
    The harmony here is also a disguised sequence. Gbmaj Cb7 F#m9 D9 Gm9 Eb9. (On the other hand - knowing how Jobim thought of chords on the guitar – there is another way of looking at this which is altogether simpler - more on that later.)
    The sequence is obvious in the last pair of chords - m9 down a maj 3rd to a dominant chord. Not so obvious in the first pair ( Gbmaj –B7) until you realise that Jobim has subbed the Gb maj 7 for what could also be an Eb min9 chord. ( Ebmin9-B7) the Major 3rd motion.
    The shift to a C in the melody starts a iii Vi ii V progression back to the A section - but targets melody tones in maj 3rds - C – Ab then Bb –Gb - the same motion as the chords in the Bridge and then ends with the Gb - so the whole bridge does this long journey from the Tonic F to Gb - which is of course destined to resolve back to the G in the melody. Another subtle hint at another tonality.

    I have more to say about how to approach the chords as an improviser– especially how thinking modally in the bridge might actually help one to think more globally! - but someone else can have a go -
    I just wanted to emphasise the importance of the tune itself!
     

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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  2. slowpinky

    slowpinky Tele-Afflicted

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    TGFI

    Heres the lead sheet again.
     

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  3. jefrs

    jefrs Doctor of Teleocity

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    I find Ipanema to be very much of a feel piece that borrows from Desafinado 'slightly out of tune (key) tune'. It is deliberately a bit out of kilter.
    Figuring out mode probably 'does your head in', its structure is probably a thing of its own (like crocodile tears). I look at it as a minor with accidentals, which I think is how it is written. Whatever mode/etc you read it as depends on how it is written out.
    Is that sheet from the Fake Book?
     
  4. slowpinky

    slowpinky Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes its just a real Book chart - and I mentioned the vagaries of the harmony created by the guitar voicings - that really comes into play in the bridge.
    I agree - The first 8 has the Desifinado feel but Desifinado is even more complex.
    And I agree with you about Minor - I know I alluded to a C tonality over the F - but it could easily be D min /F too -
    This tune is as much about Take the A train in the 1st 8...The modal approach is just one - hopefully there will be a variety of approaches emerging here....
     
  5. jefrs

    jefrs Doctor of Teleocity

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    The HL Real Books are the Fake Books after they sorted out the publishing rights ;)
    The transcriptions are thumbnail sketches of the real thing, lead sheets, and they have 'errors'.
    I have or had the full score of it somewhere, again that may not be a faithful transcription. Tom Jobim played this on a nylon-strung Classical, a very expressive guitar which lends to the feel, but it was composed on the piano. He had some classical music training and probably did write his compositions out as score.
     
  6. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    Though the orig rec is in Db, the 'real book' version (in F) is correct in this case.

    @Slowpinky - very very interesting your take on the melody as a C thing. Never thought about it that way before - I like it!.
    I see/hear the [A] section as his take on Duke Ellington's "A-Train" (interestingly, in the key of C :?::idea:).
    The only thing remotely modal I do in the A section is play squarely in the key of G7 (G mixo) over the G7 chord.

    I also hear the bridge as three sections of Major going to minor:
    Gbmaj to Gbm(6)
    Amaj to Am
    Bbmaj to Bbm

    Thinking (actually hearing it) this way allows me to do my modal thing on the bridge.

    *as for some alt. changes try these for the first two.
    Instead of | Fmaj7 | % | G7 | % | play | Dm9 | % | Bb13(b5) | % |
    or ... | Fmaj7 Bb13 | Am7 D9 | G7 | % | etc.
     
  7. jefrs

    jefrs Doctor of Teleocity

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    The one-flat key signature is F-major or D-minor.
    I reckon it's written in D-minor, I don't have a guitar in my hand to figure out if or how the Fmaj7 fits that ;)
    Jazz score can happily ignore the key signature, it's just something to put all the dots in the right places on, and unlike Ronnie Barker, in the right order too.
    And jazz can switch key from major to minor.

    Dropping a semitone to Db in the original recording could be an artefact of that session's process, or they were tuned flat. They didn't have digital tuners then, they had pianos, or it was for the sax ;)

    Which 'original' btw the 1962 Pery Ribeiro or the 1964 US#5 Getz/Gilberto hit ;) ?
     
  8. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    The notes 'D' and 'Db' are of course a semi-tone apart but the key of F (or Dm) and the key of Db are not.
     
  9. jefrs

    jefrs Doctor of Teleocity

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    I'll have to listen to the original. You're saying it's in Db-major?
    Not Db-minor?
    F-major to Db-major is indeed four semitones down from written? (If I've got that wrong it's because I can't count my own fingers ;)
    How does that suit Getz's sax? (I don't play sax, they tickle my lip)
    Or Astrud's untrained voice?
    The piece was re-written several times from the original composition on piano, words too, but they could transpose on the fly.

    Which recording/version is that? (I only have re-prints & best-of ;)
     
  10. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    I believe that's what Ken is saying.
     
  11. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Huh? The lead sheet in reply #2 is written in one flat, and it's clearly in F major, overall, not D minor. The B section goes walkabout, but the A section clearly takes it back to F.

    The A section melody is coy about F major, analyze that as you will, but there's no D minor happening in it. (No D minor happening in the bridge, either, not even in passing.)
     
  12. upinthemteles

    upinthemteles Tele-Meister

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    I really like the idea of the bridge as major going to minor sections, will be trying as when I get home. The alt. changes look quite playable as well.
     
  13. jefrs

    jefrs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Did I mention having full score of this. I seem to have three different versions and they're all written in no-flat C-major / A-minor.

    They all kick of at chord Am and the intro definitely has a minor feel.
    I have to go with A-minor with these scores, and ears, just had a quick fiddle, yup - minor.

    I have known this tune like forever, and always felt it was a minor melody despite having some clever major-to-minor changes.
    Erm, I don't seem to have an easy method of posting score up, I'll look into that :oops:

    With a tricksy tune like this, it's written in the key signature of the key it's in most of the time, where most of the notes fit without too many #'s or b's. With the key on this one it is a bit open to interpretation as to where you are in it but imo it starts in a minor so it is written in that, despite a couple of slick changes.
     
  14. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Wait, you're saying the lead sheet in reply #2 is a song in A minor?

    I can see sometimes bagging the key signature entirely and just using accidentals, but that's music written without a key signature, not music in C Major or A minor.
     
  15. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    Here's a quick re-harm I did. I hope you like it. Oh, and some people tell me I look a bit like Pat Metheny but I don't see it.

     
  16. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire

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    Clarification

    The most common lead sheets of 'Garota de Ipanema' or 'the Girl From Ipenema' are written in one flat - the key of F major (this is not a minor key tune) and most folks play it in F, including Jobim when he did it as an instrumental.

    The famous, original recorded version with Astrud Gilberto and Stan Getz is in the key of Db major.

    *That Metheny version is f'n SICK:!: I think he's in Eb major(?) and on the baritone (or something really low tuned) obviously.
     
  17. upinthemteles

    upinthemteles Tele-Meister

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    haha, that ending cracked me up
     
  18. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Get a haircut, hippie.
     
  19. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    I can't. It's where my tone comes from.
     
  20. jefrs

    jefrs Doctor of Teleocity

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    Ok, try this PDF
     

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