"Gimme Shelter" Stones Doc...reflections on symbolism

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by djalt, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. Badabing

    Badabing Friend of Leo's

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    I see things from a bit of a different angle here. I don't question the Stones'(Mick, Keith,& the boys) decision on Security, location, gig management etc...

    The Stones were a Corporation by this point and time. They had accountants, Record Labels, and Management.

    To me these are the "Business" folks for the band. I don't' expect musicians to make business decisions that's why they have management. Where were the Stones' management and how did they escape any need to answer for the outcomes of this tragedy. There were obvious Huge misses in decision making here
     
  2. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Living in the Bay Area mecca at the time, I think the movie portrayed the event way too dark. Expectations were very high and as LarryF mentioned, the times were a changin' quite rapidly. I think Altamont gets a bad rap for all of the wrong reasons. What happened was bound to happen anyway, because the events were getting too large, too uncontrolled, too fast. For it to happen to the "bad boys", is poetic in so many ways. Historically, it makes for a great bookend, hence the movie trying to portend that. Consider some of LarryF's input of what was happening at the time along with quite a few other issues, it becomes a pretty minor incident. That night was used as propaganda by something I'm not allowed to mention here. Pure and simple. I would love to rant about it, but suffice to say, I think the Stones and the Hell's Angels got a bad rap from it.
     
  3. Fendereedo

    Fendereedo Friend of Leo's

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    I only know about the movie through a friend of mine who had the DVD. Very dark film, some great music, some boring negotiation scenes, some nasty onstage violence involving Jefferson Airplane and some Hells Angels, and a tragic murder.

    Really not somewhere I want to return, even with The Stones killer music. This is IMO a bleak documentary, where even as a viewer I went away with a feeling of guilt.



    Steve
     
  4. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Nope.
     
  5. djalt

    djalt Tele-Holic

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    This sums it up for me. That and the observation there was a corporation already rolling this along, I hadn't considered that aspect of the Event.

    Also the question of why the organizers weren't held responsible at least in part is still valid.

    Thanks for the history lesson fellas. I guess it's like realizing a brand of confectionary is actually sweetened with saccharine, not the sugar you imagined.
     
  6. simonsp

    simonsp Friend of Leo's

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    Isn't this called 'Passing the buck'? From the little I've read about Altamont the main decisions (location & security) were made by the band and that means Jagger and Richards by this point.
     
  7. teleamp

    teleamp Poster Extraordinaire

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    If one of the Hell's Angels had not stabbed someone...
     
  8. teleamp

    teleamp Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yeah, come to think, it does kinda have that "snuff film" feeling about it.
     
  9. vjf1968

    vjf1968 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Well Meredith Hunter did have a gun and pulled it out.
     
  10. Coach56

    Coach56 One of the Boys

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    Very true, but that didn't hap[pen until after the they had roughed him up and pushed him away. ( Marty Balin of the Jefferson Airplane also was roughed up by the Angels and he WAS supposed to be on stage )

    Of course, he should have never approached the stage in the first place.

    Of course the promoters should have known better then to let a bunch of 1% bikers sit on the stage drinking beer ( and smoking dope ).

    Truth is, as has been said it was a SNAFU right from the beginning, if you remember where the whole country was at emotionally at this point it was inevitable something, somewhere was going to go bad. It was the end of the whole "Summer of Love", peace & love movement that is for sure. I think those of us that were alive at the time felt the shift from the crazy fun of the Beatles to a dark side.

    I am sure it is stupid, but as much as I like playing Stones music I will not play Sympathy for the Devil and normally will change the channel if it comes on the radio. Too much bad juju in that song.
     
  11. memorex

    memorex Friend of Leo's

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    I had the same feeling around that time. But after I got a high number in the draft lottery, and I knew I didn't have to worry about Uncle Sam any more, I felt a whole lot better.
     
  12. Chicago Matt

    Chicago Matt Friend of Leo's

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    I agree with this. I'm about the same age as Larry. Just my opinion but I think that somewhere along the line, the new freedom from the old values progressed into the unrestrained, self-absorbed hedonism that was bound to not end well. At the university I was attending, I knew several people who rapidly went from "smoking a little grass" to taking other drugs with a mission - STP, LSD, many forms of speed, etc. Some were taking anything someone would give them, without having any idea what it was. The results weren't good. I love the movie, Forrest Gump. It depicts this progression very well.
     
  13. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yeah, big day, nothing ever went wrong before, nothing has gone right since. Big turning point for the entire world.
     
  14. rokdog49

    rokdog49 Friend of Leo's

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    Yep,
    It's the nature of man to take something that started out with good intentions and pervert it a-la the 60's peace and love gone wrong. It was never sustainable.
     
  15. Throttleneck

    Throttleneck Tele-Afflicted

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    Funny thing, I knew about Altamont and seen parts of Gimme Shelter but I never knew until today that the Dead were supposed to be part of the show and had some input into the organization. They left when they saw things getting out of hand.
     
  16. slauson slim

    slauson slim Friend of Leo's

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    One of my colleagues was at Altamont with his friends - he was a local from Tracy CA - he told me, and they had a pretty good time, unaware until later of the killing and rest of the violence. He was far from the stage, up on the hill.

    The whole all is groovy Woodstock thing and doom and gloom Altamont woe is us is focused on by the media and pundits as turning points. And those of us on TDPRI focus on those concerts because we are attuned to music and performers. Two things - both were filmed so there is a record of the events to return to and discuss, and they involved notable people. So those events are stakes in the ground.

    The Boomer generation is tens of millions. And the overwhelming majority who were of the cohort born in the late '40s - early '50s did not go to Woodstock, the Fillmores, or Altamont, or became hippies or were involved with drugs or the Counter Culture or the various things associated with the late '60s. They went to work or college, married, began families, were in the military, and got on with life.

    For most, the counter culture was a blip, something on television or in LIFE magazine, or to warn their sons and daughters about......
     
  17. idjster

    idjster VERY grateful member Ad Free Member

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    I was old enough to be at both and didn't attend either Woodstock or Altamont. The tone of the events as I know them are only filtered through the production of the films documenting them. I wouldn't trust that so much, because it portrays what the film maker wants it to portray. I own the films of both on DVD. Gimme Shelter really is dark. I think that was what the film maker intended.

    I'm still glad I wasn't there.
     
  18. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Of course it could have been all sunshine, strobe lights and love if they wanted to present it that way. There's nothing objective about a documentary film.
     
  19. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

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    sympathy for the devil is based on the russian novel master and margharita-a book that proves the existence of good via evil.
    (you cant have one without the other)
    Its a funny book, and like the song not very serious or deep, lol

    the song isnt literally about having sympathy for the devil

    besides the **** went down during Under MY Thumb
     
  20. surfoverb

    surfoverb Doctor of Teleocity

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    lol yup :D
     
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