Gibson CS-356

[Freeman Keller]

I have always done it in slightly different order. I think it comes from building acoustics

Build the rim
Carve the outside of the top
Drill out inside waste to ~1/4
Carve the inside to 1/4
Route or saw the f-holes
Bind the f-holes
Brace the top
Do any more "voicing" that I feel is necessary
Glue top to rim (back is still off)
Build he neck including whatever kind of tenon.
Route neck pocket, or mortise for whatever kind of joint I am doing. Rough set the neck geometry
Route the pickup cavities, drill interconnecting holes
Decide how I'm going to access electronics (f-hole, back panel, disconnects for pickups,...
Drill holes for electronic in top. Depending on location of jack reinforce the area
Run string ground wire to tailpiece and drill hole
Wire all the electronic into a harness. Test it, make sure it fits thru the f-hole
Build back. Shape outside, drill out waste, carve inside. You can use the same carving cradle
Mask inside of f-holes and electronics holes, if you decide to leave the electronics inside the box while you finish tie some little strings and run them out thru the masking tape. You will deal with them after finishing
Sign the top, glue in your label
Glue back to rim.
Bind body
Glue neck in pocket
Finish

Here is the old 335 build thread, ovious differences about the plate construction but the sequence is the same
The archtop thread goes thru the carving but has no electronics so it it different too

Lets build something that looks like an ES-335

I realize that this is the telecaster guitar forum but lately there has been a lot of interest in Gibson ES-335 and similar guitars. There is a long running thread asking why they are so expensive - I have built two in that style and posted a couple of pictures of the insides - within a few...

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Lets build something that looks like an L5 archtop

Do we really need another stinkin' build thread? I've debate for a long time doing this (and I certainly may bail out at some point) but I would like to think this will be enough different that a few of you might enjoy watching. In my short lutherie learning experience I have built almost...

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[pypa]

I see. I decided to glue on the back. I was unaware that the top is braced. I I thought the bottom and top are just carved on the outside.

 

[pypa]

Oh I see. The top bracing is the kerfed support block needed to mate to the center block.

I guess my question is how critical is the thickness of the top and bottom? If they are carved only on the outside, the top and bottom plates will both mate fine. No bracing needed. Does the top require uniform thickness for proper resonance? I can understand for an acoustic, but with the big honking center block, aren't we really negating 90% of the physics anyway?


I see now that leaving the back off would have allowed better access to the electronics, but I suppose I can fit all that to the unattached top.

 

[Freeman Keller]

There are a variety of internal construction methods that are used on this style of guitar. Some have the big honkin' center block, some have smaller braces, some have nothing at all. In general it needs to support the bridge, tailpiece (if there is one), pickups and the neck. If the top is intended to vibrate the structure needs to allow for that. I frankly donn't know what a 356 has inside, but I do know what what a 335 and a 175 and several others have, and I know what I have used on mine.

Frankly I don't think it matters.

 

[pypa]

I drilled out some of the waste. I'm just going to leave the inside of the back flat. The thickest part of the body is under the center block anyway, so if I concaved the inside to match the outside I suspect I won't be removing a ton of material anyway. It'll be a headache to smooth it. I'll just make it all one depth.

 

[pypa]

I am still undecided what bridge to purchase. I'm looking at the Tonepros TOM's, but I've never had a guitar with a wraparound bridge, so that's enticing too.

Thing is, my fretboard radius is usually 10" (that's the beam I have). I never thought about it before, but if the bridge doesn't have individually adjustable saddle heights, how can one match the radius?

 

[RickyRicardo]

I'm sure they are all a 12" radius. However, here is a saddle height adjustable TOM.
Gotoh 510BN

 

[Freeman Keller]

All of the ToM's that I have dealt with are 12 inch and that is the radius I use on the f/b. You could buy (or make) a 12 inch sanding block or file string slots in the saddles of whatever bridge you decide on. I have been very happy with the Gotoh modern style bridge but I think TonePro is equally good. I don't care for the torque that a wrap around bridge is subjected to but I honestly don't have a good reason.

 

[pypa]

I glued up the top today. 16mm thick. Freeman, I know you say carve first then rout the f holes. Wouldn’t it be easier to mark and rout the f holes while the top is still flat?

 

[Freeman Keller]

The only f-hole guitar with a carved top was the acoustic archtop. I carved the outside first, then the inside to rough thickness (1/4 in the center, 1/8 in the recurve). Then I cut f-holes which made a dramatic difference in the tap tone, and bound them. Then I braced the top (remember that I have different goals than you do) and finally glued it to the rim.

When I have worked with the laminated tops I just cut the holes when its convenient. I typically drill the holes in the ends of the f-holes, then route the actual shape with very small bit in a dremel. I made a lucite template for the hole and the dremel bit shaft just rides on the plastic.

You do have to be careful with solid topped guitars with f-holes, they can splite on sharp points. You see that on violins sometimes.

 

[pypa]

I settled on this bridge. Found a decent deal on it.

 

[pypa]

Now I am trying to buy a pre-wired switch harness. Mojotone sells one for an es335. Some of the prewired harnesses have ridgid wiring; I need some slack I believe to be able to thread through the f holes.

 

[crazydave911]

Now I am trying to buy a pre-wired switch harness. Mojotone sells one for an es335. Some of the prewired harnesses have ridgid wiring; I need some slack I believe to be able to thread through the f holes.

GFS also sells a pretty good prewired harness, except for the Brian May, it's crap lmao

 

[pypa]

GFS also sells a pretty good prewired harness, except for the Brian May, it's crap lmao

I've purchased switch harnesses and pickups from GFS before. I like their Kwikplug system. But I don't know about the quality of their components.

 

[crazydave911]

I've purchased switch harnesses and pickups from GFS before. I like their Kwikplug system. But I don't know about the quality of their components.

The one for my short scale 12 (a Tele harness) came with CTS pots and a green chiqlit capacitor

 

[Freeman Keller]

Personally I would build the harness using the exact same holes in the top and then practice pulling the harness thru the f-holes while the guitar is still open. It is a tricky operation and if the harness is not perfect with respect to the hole spacing it gets trickier. There are various methods of doing this, I had pretty good luck tying pieces of dental floss on the shafts of the pots and the jack, but it is hard to maneuver them into position. You will have to solder pickup wires on anyway unless you use some sort of disconnect or terminals.

The other advantage of making your own harness is that you can do the so called modern 2V2T wiring which lets the volume pots work independently. I also recomment testing everything outside the guitar - you can tap on pickups with screw driver to make sure everything works.

Spllit shaft pots are easier to tie string on than solid shaft, you can also put surgical rubber tubing over the shafts - make sure it fits thru the holes.

Holding the output jack in position while you tighten the lock nuts is also tricky - I bought a clever tool that Frank Ford designed called "Jack the Gripper" which makes it easy.

 

[pypa]

Thanks, Dave and Freeman. I really dislike soldering. One might say, I got soul but I'm not a solderer.

Many LP switch harnesses are rigid. But the Mojotone is specifically for a 335, so there is slack between with pots, so they should be easier to feed through the f holes and up through alternate spacing.

 

[pypa]

I bought these. The GF components are scarily cheaper, but who am I kidding.... The biggest audience I am playing for is my dog. who's gonna notice?

 

[pypa]

Working on the carve. The order of ops is still making me nervous, but I decided to carve the top before cutting the f holes because a thinner top will be easier to route. Of course, shaping the top before glue up may present alignment issues, but I cut the top slightly oversize and I will rough shape the top to about 90pct, then cut the holes, then glue, then final shape.

I am not really sure how to do a “recurve” gracefully, so I’m just going make the curve simply convex.

 

[Freeman Keller]

While the inside is still flat I drill a network of holes that establishes "contour lines" like a map on the outside. I also rout an edge that establishes a targe thickness all around the rim. Carving is basically connecting the dots, the recurve happens sort of naturally. If you plan to carve the inside once again drill a series of holes with the depth stop set at a hair over your target thickness

Starts at post 44 and goes on for a couple of pages

Lets build something that looks like an L5 archtop

Time to get started. Made a few passes with the big plane on the back side of the wedges and rubbed them around on a piece of sandpaper. Most of that gets carved away so I don't care that its perfect, but I want it sort of flat. Ran them thru my table saw to square up the seam. Screwed...

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I found that the little carving cradle helped hold the plate while I worked on it