Gibson 498T as a tele bridge...

Gaz_

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Hi,
I'm looking for a little help, does anyone know the closest I can get to a Gibson 498T pickup but in a standard tele bridge configuration? Stack/hot rails etc.

I know there's a thousand variables, and it's not going to sound spot on. But recently I've been playing an Epi dot Es335 in the band, because it cuts through the mix, while my tele 12 gets too lost. So I'm interested in trying a humbucker in the bridge to see if I can cut through with the 12 and just to hear what happens really. The 12 string IS a better sounding guitar, it just get's a little lost live.

I wired the control panel in with a screw junction for the pickups, so it's abit no harm no foul if that makes sense. The alternative would be the get the router out again and stick a third pickup in, a little like Jack Whites 3 wheel motion tele. Tempting.

I know I know... pics! She's been through quite a few changes now. Currently, creamery Ric 63 in the neck, and Q pickups esquire in the bridge, 5 way switching, 250k volume, 500k tone, both concentric. Oh and an onboard squishy octopus compressor.

20220220_174218.jpg 87780607_2786386188144843_4148882831059189760_n.jpg IMG_20210527_161403.jpg
 

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KeithDavies 100

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This might not be helpful, but have you tried a graphic equaliser? I'm not sure a humbucker is going to bring out the best of your 12-string, in terms of tone, but if it's getting lost in the mix then an EQ might be solution. Boost the mids a bit. Some people don't like them but I love mine.

Also, might your compressor be compressing a touch too much? (There's a song in there somewhere...!)

On my Tele - 6-string - I've got Joe Barden blade pickups. Love them - put them in around 2008 or so and never looked back. Others do similar designs these days. Might that be worth a try?

Kudos for using the 12 live. I love 12s, but I've rarely used one with a band. Covering Getting Tough, by Steve Earle, I think, once upon a time, and perhaps nothing since then.
 

Gaz_

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This might not be helpful, but have you tried a graphic equaliser? I'm not sure a humbucker is going to bring out the best of your 12-string, in terms of tone, but if it's getting lost in the mix then an EQ might be solution. Boost the mids a bit. Some people don't like them but I love mine.

Also, might your compressor be compressing a touch too much? (There's a song in there somewhere...!)

On my Tele - 6-string - I've got Joe Barden blade pickups. Love them - put them in around 2008 or so and never looked back. Others do similar designs these days. Might that be worth a try?

Kudos for using the 12 live. I love 12s, but I've rarely used one with a band. Covering Getting Tough, by Steve Earle, I think, once upon a time, and perhaps nothing since then.
Hi Keith, thanks for getting back to me.

The over squish is another thing I've been worrying about. It sounds ace by it's self and that's how I set it. It can be adjusted, but you take the pickguard off and it needs a screwdriver. I might do that next practise, get me and the lead guitarist and drummer to play, and get the bassist to twiddle my knobs live.

I have got an eq pedal. It's a behringer I got a long time ago to tame an acoustic 12 that had the horrendous feedback in a live band. It could be worth a shout, the problem is we only really play open mics atm, so I'm trying to get everything I want in the guitar for "simple" set ups. Hence, the onboard compression.
 

KeithDavies 100

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Okay. There are a few Youtube videos about getting a sound that cuts through in a band setting. I think it's a problem lots of struggle with. I'll leave you to dive into that rabbithole (!) but basically it seems to be about finding the gap in the harmonic spectrum, if that makes sense. Hence the EQ idea. A lot of people just try to go louder, but it's not necessarily the solution.

The humbucker on your Epiphone might be cutting through because it's louder, but it may just be because it's nicely hitting that gap in the band mix so that you can hear it.

Years ago I did a recording course, and the mixing engineer demonstrated the same thing. A vocalist and I had done a Route 66 cover. I'd put down a jazzy acoustic guitar, a lead guitar part, bass line, some drums, and some poorly played piano. The engineer put her gorgeous vocals front and centre, and then panned other things left and right as you might expect to give them each their own position in that sense.

But then he brought up an EQ and "shaped" the envelope of each instrument so they weren't encroaching on each other's space so much. it was an absolute revelation.

The piano part was rubbish, and I said so, but it was best I'd been able to do. He listened and said "no problem, we can work with that". When he was finished, you could hear this piano tinkling away in the mix, but not well enough to hear that it wasn't actually being played very well! I was astonished. The guy used to mix stuff for Simon Cowell. Maybe that's one of the tricks you need to learn on that gig!

Another example of this I saw recently was a guy demonstrating a Brian May guitar. Frustratingly, I've just searched YouTube and can't find it now. Anyway, point was, he demo'd that because that guitar has on-off switches instead of a pick-up select switch, there's quite a range of tonal options. (3 pickups, and you can have them all on, for example - so more options that a "conventional" guitar like a Strat or Tele.) He went through and demo'd the different sounds. One of them was quite thin and weedy, and he said "now you'd think this would be no use at all, but it sits really well in a band mix", and then played a clip of the Bohemian Rhapsody solo and lo and behold it's that setting.

The point here is that - as you've said - we often set up tones that sound great when we're playing on our own. They make the guitar sound wonderful when it's a solo instrument. In a band setting, though, it ends up getting lost.

I guess pros have the luxury of time to experiment with this stuff with the band - or maybe they just get it intuitively. For the rest of us, it's a bit trial and error. I've found that bands aren't that impressed by the guitarist wanting to play a song over and over while he tweaks settings - it's perceived as diva behaviour!

No idea whether the above waffle was any use!

Good luck. Let me know how you get on.
 

Skyhook

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Hi,
I'm looking for a little help, does anyone know the closest I can get to a Gibson 498T pickup but in a standard tele bridge configuration? Stack/hot rails etc.

I know there's a thousand variables, and it's not going to sound spot on. But recently I've been playing an Epi dot Es335 in the band, because it cuts through the mix, while my tele 12 gets too lost. So I'm interested in trying a humbucker in the bridge to see if I can cut through with the 12 and just to hear what happens really. The 12 string IS a better sounding guitar, it just get's a little lost live.

I wired the control panel in with a screw junction for the pickups, so it's abit no harm no foul if that makes sense. The alternative would be the get the router out again and stick a third pickup in, a little like Jack Whites 3 wheel motion tele. Tempting.

I know I know... pics! She's been through quite a few changes now. Currently, creamery Ric 63 in the neck, and Q pickups esquire in the bridge, 5 way switching, 250k volume, 500k tone, both concentric. Oh and an onboard squishy octopus compressor.

View attachment 1003831 View attachment 1003832 View attachment 1003834
Not gonna dictate to you as you know your use case better than anybody... but I am curious...
I have an LP with the 498T. It's kinda high output... like metal-distortion-powerful.
What I'm getting at is, do you really want that in a Tele? Part of the "Tele-sound" is the low powered pickups.
Power to ya if you do, though! As I said, you know your use case better than anybody.
 

Gaz_

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Not gonna dictate to you as you know your use case better than anybody... but I am curious...
I have an LP with the 498T. It's kinda high output... what I'm getting at is, do you really want that in a Tele?
Power to ya if you do, though! As I said, you know your use case better than anybody.
Essentially I went for that pickup because in my Epi Dot, I have "Alnico classic humbuckers" which this post assessed as the budget versions of 490R & 498T pickups.


But I don't know really, it's all a little thinking out loud I guess. I already have an artec hot rails kicking around in a beater guitar (axl tele, tuned nashville) so I might swap that in just for a cheap and easy test.
 

Gaz_

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Okay. There are a few Youtube videos about getting a sound that cuts through in a band setting. I think it's a problem lots of struggle with. I'll leave you to dive into that rabbithole (!) but basically it seems to be about finding the gap in the harmonic spectrum, if that makes sense. Hence the EQ idea. A lot of people just try to go louder, but it's not necessarily the solution.

The humbucker on your Epiphone might be cutting through because it's louder, but it may just be because it's nicely hitting that gap in the band mix so that you can hear it.

Years ago I did a recording course, and the mixing engineer demonstrated the same thing. A vocalist and I had done a Route 66 cover. I'd put down a jazzy acoustic guitar, a lead guitar part, bass line, some drums, and some poorly played piano. The engineer put her gorgeous vocals front and centre, and then panned other things left and right as you might expect to give them each their own position in that sense.

But then he brought up an EQ and "shaped" the envelope of each instrument so they weren't encroaching on each other's space so much. it was an absolute revelation.

The piano part was rubbish, and I said so, but it was best I'd been able to do. He listened and said "no problem, we can work with that". When he was finished, you could hear this piano tinkling away in the mix, but not well enough to hear that it wasn't actually being played very well! I was astonished. The guy used to mix stuff for Simon Cowell. Maybe that's one of the tricks you need to learn on that gig!

Another example of this I saw recently was a guy demonstrating a Brian May guitar. Frustratingly, I've just searched YouTube and can't find it now. Anyway, point was, he demo'd that because that guitar has on-off switches instead of a pick-up select switch, there's quite a range of tonal options. (3 pickups, and you can have them all on, for example - so more options that a "conventional" guitar like a Strat or Tele.) He went through and demo'd the different sounds. One of them was quite thin and weedy, and he said "now you'd think this would be no use at all, but it sits really well in a band mix", and then played a clip of the Bohemian Rhapsody solo and lo and behold it's that setting.

The point here is that - as you've said - we often set up tones that sound great when we're playing on our own. They make the guitar sound wonderful when it's a solo instrument. In a band setting, though, it ends up getting lost.

I guess pros have the luxury of time to experiment with this stuff with the band - or maybe they just get it intuitively. For the rest of us, it's a bit trial and error. I've found that bands aren't that impressed by the guitarist wanting to play a song over and over while he tweaks settings - it's perceived as diva behaviour!

No idea whether the above waffle was any use!

Good luck. Let me know how you get on.

Yeah I do wonder that. So I'm the rhythm guitar, and I love the thickness the 12 gives the band when it's on fire, and how we mix it in, it's sits lovely. But, live, I think the highs are getting washed out by the cymbals. The epi has that bit more grunt I guess. And less highs. Maybe I'm chasing the wrong dream, but there's nothing quite like a thick 12 string to me! I do have some nice settings built into the guitar as well, maybe I should give them all more of a go. I'll delve into youtube. Thanks for all this.

You're right, we have a slightly bizzare lead guitarist, who just plugs the guitar in, turns up the reverb and plays. So anything I do is percieved as me being a diva. Luckily, the bassist is more like me, trying to actually sound as good as we can!
 

hamerfan

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Look into Bill Lawrence pickups! Clear and powerfull

and the L290TL for more midrange and volume.
 
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KeithDavies 100

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Yeah I do wonder that. So I'm the rhythm guitar, and I love the thickness the 12 gives the band when it's on fire, and how we mix it in, it's sits lovely. But, live, I think the highs are getting washed out by the cymbals. The epi has that bit more grunt I guess. And less highs. Maybe I'm chasing the wrong dream, but there's nothing quite like a thick 12 string to me! I do have some nice settings built into the guitar as well, maybe I should give them all more of a go. I'll delve into youtube. Thanks for all this.

You're right, we have a slightly bizzare lead guitarist, who just plugs the guitar in, turns up the reverb and plays. So anything I do is percieved as me being a diva. Luckily, the bassist is more like me, trying to actually sound as good as we can!
I don't think you're chasing the wrong dream at all, but perhaps it does just need a bit of tweaking.

I get the clash between your top end and the cymbals - that goes back to that harmonic space I was talking about.

In a similar way, if you were to set the Epiphone neck pickup to a rich plummy sound, you might find that gets lost against the bass guitar a bit, live, and you'd use the bridge pickup more. At home, I'm forever on the neck pickups, on all my guitars, but they get lost playing with a band.

Try an EQ, boosting a bit in the middle, and see what you think.

Otherwise @hamerfan suggested some pickups above along similar lines to my Bardens - the Bill Lawrence anyway - that might get what you're looking for.
 

uriah1

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On a tele I want the HB sound I have a lil59.
Very sensitive to pole adjustments..the backline pole screws adds more
than the front, etc..as does the d/G string height.
After setup it delivers.
 

Fiesta Red

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I don’t have a specific suggestion for a specific pickup, but…

I would call two people:

Pete Biltoft at Vintage Vibe Guitars.

Whoever answers the phone at Rio Grande Pickups.

Describe what you’re shooting for, and they will give you great suggestions…I know this because both of them have done this for me.

I have Pete Biltoft Vintage Vibe SP-90’s in my Strat, and a Rio Grande Bluesdawg in the bridge of my Epiphone Les Paul Junior.
 

65 Champ Amp

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~ Have a chat with your cymbal crasher and the other guitar player about Touch, Dynamics, and Sharing Sonic Space.

~ Either turn the compressor off, or reduce the squish while upping the output

~ Use a clean boost, or eq pedal

~ Swap your pickup as a last resort


I’d concentrate on #1 first. “I need to cut through the mix” is a euphamism for “I need to sit in the mix”, and “My bandmates don’t play well with others”.

Lastly, I see a mike in front of your face, so you’re supposed to be a bit of a diva, right? 😜
 




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