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GameStop stock

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by uriah1, Jan 27, 2021.

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  1. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    This would be like crediting Pavlov with the reason your dog drools. Dogs have been drooling for food long before Pavlov came along.


    You're painting the with the broadest brush you can find.
     
  2. ndcaster

    ndcaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yup.
     
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  3. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob Tele-Holic

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    But no one knew about it until Mick Jagger put it into the Stones tune Bit*h.

    (Don't burst my bubble... I like my version of history and information transfer).
     
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  4. cyclopean

    cyclopean Poster Extraordinaire

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    no, words mean things.
     
  5. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    Yes, and many often generalize large and intricate systems/concepts into one word to make it sound like they have it all figured out.
     
  6. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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  7. kLyon

    kLyon Tele-Holic

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    Exactly right.
    Both the word and concept of "society" far predate Marx.
    (Don't get me wrong; not slagging Marx... he was a brilliant thinker and all... that's just not what we're discussing here....))
     
  8. SDFD18

    SDFD18 TDPRI Member

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    No, that’s not true. Socialism is goods and services provided by the government. Tax funded services like police and fire depts.

    As opposed to capitalism which is goods and services provided by private enterprise.

    Change the word “workers” to “citizens” and maybe it will make more sense to you.

    Good night
     
  9. cnlbb

    cnlbb Tele-Afflicted

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    Of course they do. But I could also work out four or five different meanings of this quoted statement, thankfully I have some context from your previous statements to know what you're getting at. So it turns out that intended meaning is important too. Words are just tools we use to fumble through what we're trying to say. I think we've all seen recently how difficult it is to communicate with people, so unless they've tossed out a flagrant malaprop I think it's okay to meet them in the middle. Semantics are best taught by middle school teachers.
     
  10. cyclopean

    cyclopean Poster Extraordinaire

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    "socialism" already has a well defined meaning and people need to stop using it wrong. if you don't get this go read some marx.
     
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  11. cyclopean

    cyclopean Poster Extraordinaire

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    not every citizen is a worker. lots of undocumented people are workers and lots of citizens are management.
     
  12. ghostchord

    ghostchord Tele-Meister

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    oh no, management. so we got undocumented and citizens, we got workers and management. What about an undocumented person who is a manager but also works? Maybe at his one job he is a "worker" and in another job he's a "manager". Y'know some of these guys need two jobs to get by. I guess he might be a citizen somewhere as well. I'm totally confused now. Oh right, buy GME...

    p.s. Hello from Socialist Canada (except we're not *really* socialists despite what you might have heard). And no please don't buy GME.
    Btw wikipedia says:
    "Socialism is a political, social and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership[1][2][3] of the means of production[4][5][6][7] and democratic control or workers' self-management of enterprises.[8][9] It includes the political theories and movements associated with such systems.[10] Social ownership can be public, collective, cooperative, or of equity.[11] While no single definition encapsulates the many types of socialism,[12] social ownership is the one common element.[1][13][14] Socialists disagree about the degree to which social control or regulation of the economy is necessary, how far society should intervene and whether government, particularly existing government, is the correct vehicle for change.[15]"

    so it's kind of vague/broad.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2021
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  13. koen

    koen Friend of Leo's

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    I have never understood how stock-markets work and i’m perfectly fine with that. :)
     
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  14. maxvintage

    maxvintage Poster Extraordinaire

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    This isn't really right. There was plenty of private enterprise before capitalism. "Capitalism" refers to a political economy set up around the lending of capital. That's why it's called "capitalism" and not "private enterprisism." it's a way of thinking: think of money not as a pile of gold with which you can buy stuff, but rather as a pile of capital which you can lend to people to get more money. It's all about seeing money not as a tangible limited physical good, like arable land or stock of timber or coal, but as capital.

    Of course there was always money lending--there's money lending in the bible. But it's the different emphasis.


    People think "socialism" means "government handouts." But if you do any reading in the literature of socialism--Fourier, Robert Owen, Marx; or read the speeches of socialist Union leader Eugene Debs, it means multiple things--one of them is "workers own the means of production."

    Imagine a mine: the owner is not a miner and has never worked in a mine: rather he has either inherited or accumulated capital to buy the mine, and thus he's entitled to extract a share of the value the miners produce with their labor. A socialist miner's Union would say "why don't we, the workers, own the mine, and then we get ALL the value of our labor?

    So for example taylor guitars is now employee owned. That makes it socialist by the first definition.

    The other form of socialism builds on that, and argues that we see society as like the mine: we are all laboring but someone is in a position to benefit from our labor without doing any of their own.

    To make this more clear I came up with a thinking exercise : O'Malley's Utopian Banking Scheme!

    Please note I'm not endorsing anything here or making a political post: I'm a US historian for a living and actually know something about the evolution of these terms.
     
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  15. kennl

    kennl Tele-Afflicted

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    during the "great recession" of a decade ago, I saw the most brilliant economist on the planet in a television interview
    a midwest US small-town banker
    he was asked how he was doing better than the Wall Street guys
    he answered that he always uses the 3-6-3 theory of economics
    pay 3% interest to savers, charge 6% interest of borrowers and always make your 3 PM tee time at the golf course
    of course he always did due diligence on the loans he made to his small-town customers

    that's more sustainable than paying .01% interest to savers, and charging 20% to credit card borrowers while investing the profits in risky ventures
    but the Nobel-Prize-winning economists can't seem to see that
     
  16. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    Intellect prevails, cheating catches up. Notice there's more gamestop stock optioned, than exists, lol. That would be the first hint, somebody's gotten sloppy and reckless with their power. Somebody(s) have been outsmarted - which is the point of competition. Yet another example, of misguided power types, that think their IQ relates to their highly leveraged net worth.
     
  17. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think you misunderstood me, and real estate has it's history of unhealthy, crazy and illegal speculation there too.

    My point was that markets and trading are not all crazy speculation. Stocks or real estate, there are sagacious and daft choices to be made. I'll agree most real estate transactions are reasonably rational. I'll guess most financial transactions are too. Back to the gapminder topic, it's really easy to have a few pieces of information color or or have outsized influence.
     
  18. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    A socialist government still produces nothing.

    Government buys everything from private industry, contractors and suppliers, whether its more socialist, capitalist, anything. The USG doesn't produce a single watt of power, doesn't make a single weapon, doesn't produce a single drug, doesn't produce a single food item, never built a single rocket, and so on. You can live and die now without ever using the USPS. Even TVA exists mostly out of incentive, not out of need or efficiency. Duke and Southern would only improve the net product and cost. FBI, BATF seem exclusive, but the truth is, corporations have better intel, and always have. They are always a step ahead out of necessity. The CIA buys intel and services from suppliers. And so on.

    The socialist structure doesn't change any of that. It adds regulation to impact alternate outcomes. Like, instead of allowing folks to purchase the potato chips of their choice, the government steps in, and decides corn producers need help, so they tax potato producers, and subsidize corn chips. Tata chip producers want to keep their customers, so now they either try to rebrand as a cornchip, or they try to make corn chips look and taste like potato chips.

    Socialism tips the scales, and brings an external demand, that alters the product and its cost. Capitalism allows the product and producer to grow and evolve based on pure merit as decided by the consumer. And therefore produces the best product possible, defined by the product or service's definition.

    So, you either let a couple people in a socialist government decide [who don't eat chips lol], or you let 150M consumers decide.

    Government owned production, where the government hires and fires, trains, maintains, etc, is closer to a communist model. An example would be 1950's Soviet era food production, where 1/3 of their crops rotted in the fields, and another 1/3 rotted before reaching markets. The USSR as owner was satisfied with that, and the population [decrease] that it supported.
     
  19. bettyseldest

    bettyseldest Friend of Leo's

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    At risk of getting this thread locked (as if it is not already sailing too close to the edge), is this something like the statement that "there are enough pieces of the Cross held in reliquaries to build the Ark"?
     
  20. maxvintage

    maxvintage Poster Extraordinaire

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    I don't want to argue with you, because it think it would get into forbidden territory, but it seems like maybe we are talking about two different things.
     
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