FXBDM’s Console to 5e3 conversion

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
Because what the world and this forum need is more Tweed Deluxes!

After my successful conversion of a single ended console to a PTP 5f1, detailed here, I obtained a push pull console radio/record player from a nice purple haired lady.

3b54f894-55d0-4289-84fd-a306cfeae3b4-jpeg.981191


This has a Sparton 7250 with push-pull 6V6 output, 5y3 rectifier and a 12 inch 4ohm speaker (And interestingly, a self split output). I initially wanted more of a Marshall sound, but the vast documentation available about the 5E3 pushed me in that direction. I reserve the right to modify it later if I think it overlaps too much with the Champ.

I did some crude testing with a signal generator and I estimate the PT will give me 360-0-360 so that’s more than fine for what I have in mind.

As with the Champazoo thread, me posting here is mostly a way of keeping myself honest and focused, and documenting progress for my future reference. If I end up giving ideas or help to someone else, even better!

Here is a gut shot before emptying,
D3E7AF2A-AB3D-45FF-B09C-82E47FCE9D0D.jpeg


The chassis cradle was knocked together with pallet wood in a few minutes, and should vastly improve the experience over my last build. Here is a shot after gutting.

B9CD85DC-F2DD-40C8-BC21-9777CFD06BA8.jpeg


My plan is to do a hybrid PTP build, mostly because I enjoy the intricacy and mental puzzle of PTP. I do want to keep my options open for modification so I plan to use the eyelet board to locate some of the most likely points of modification like coupling caps and cathode resistors/bypasses. The 6V6 will go in the two angled holes next to the PT and the preamp will go at the complete other end of the chassis. I am planning on mounting the chassis with the four holes side looking up, like a classic 5e3, and that will require some planning on the cab side to make sure everything fits nicely.

Parts are ordered and will arrive tomorrow, maybe I will have time for some layout work before then (although I am also working on a wicked 1000 pieces puzzle at the same time, so maybe not).

Thanks for joining me on this adventure!
 
Last edited:

Jeru

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Posts
1,014
Location
Chicago
This is excellent / I'll be watching. I'm just finishing up something very similar.
I whip up cradles for each build also. Cheers and happy projecting, FXBDM..!


IMG_0435.JPG
IMG_2418.JPG
IMG_2421.jpg
IMG_2532.JPG
 

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
Preliminary list of mods:

NFB switch to be installed up front
Use an IEC socket/fuse holder/light unit
Switchable input instead of four jacks (three way switch wired Normal-Both-Bright)
Pre-PI master volume installed up front
Safety diodes on the rectifier
22-22-22 filtering (the 22s were half the price of 16s)
Split V1 cathode. Original equivalent values for now
Possibly some heater configuration switch for V1 since I use Russian 6n2ps but would like the option of trying various 12A*7s.



I also have the parts for RobRob’s lead channel voicing, but I want to try the « stock » sound first.
 

printer2

Poster Extraordinaire
Joined
May 24, 2010
Posts
9,297
Location
Canada
Is that a 10" or a 12"? The smooth cone will have it break up earlier.
 

printer2

Poster Extraordinaire
Joined
May 24, 2010
Posts
9,297
Location
Canada
I have a 10" that looks the same, a nice sounding speaker. Only feeding it with a single 6V6, the 12's I have that came out of consoles are mostly ribbed. Back in the day they kept the cone light to be able to reproduce highs (at least what AM radio puts out). You had me look through my collection to see if I had one similar, only a straight cone field coil speaker though. Also since I had pulled out three amps to try them without a load on the output transformer I mucked around with an amp I built that switches between being a 5E3 and then a Tweed volume and tone on one channel and a BF bass and treble on the other. I still need to spend more time on the 5E3 position to decide if it gives more than an amp with just one Tweed channel. I have an alnico Yamaha speaker I got out of an organ, sounded good with the different amp configurations. I have a C12R in the amp, switched back to it and found it sounds, lacking. Never hear much about them online, not too terribly impressed. Going to have to try some of my hifi speakers in it just in case.
 

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
I have a 10" that looks the same, a nice sounding speaker. Only feeding it with a single 6V6, the 12's I have that came out of consoles are mostly ribbed. Back in the day they kept the cone light to be able to reproduce highs (at least what AM radio puts out). You had me look through my collection to see if I had one similar, only a straight cone field coil speaker though. Also since I had pulled out three amps to try them without a load on the output transformer I mucked around with an amp I built that switches between being a 5E3 and then a Tweed volume and tone on one channel and a BF bass and treble on the other. I still need to spend more time on the 5E3 position to decide if it gives more than an amp with just one Tweed channel. I have an alnico Yamaha speaker I got out of an organ, sounded good with the different amp configurations. I have a C12R in the amp, switched back to it and found it sounds, lacking. Never hear much about them online, not too terribly impressed. Going to have to try some of my hifi speakers in it just in case.
So what’s the reason for super heavy speakers with large magnets? Bass?
 

printer2

Poster Extraordinaire
Joined
May 24, 2010
Posts
9,297
Location
Canada
So what’s the reason for super heavy speakers with large magnets? Bass?
Power handling and efficiency. Stiffer suspention and a larger magnet resulting in more control over the cone. On the bass front, I have a 10" that has a light cone but also a loose suspension. Does being vibrated for 40 years have something to do with it? Maybe some, but one way they got more bass with speakers is to design them with a resonance peak. But it may not be the best thing for high output playing, flub anyone?
 

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
Power handling and efficiency. Stiffer suspention and a larger magnet resulting in more control over the cone. On the bass front, I have a 10" that has a light cone but also a loose suspension. Does being vibrated for 40 years have something to do with it? Maybe some, but one way they got more bass with speakers is to design them with a resonance peak. But it may not be the best thing for high output playing, flub anyone?

That’s good news if I want to limit volume then.
 

printer2

Poster Extraordinaire
Joined
May 24, 2010
Posts
9,297
Location
Canada
That’s good news if I want to limit volume then.
I mentioned the Yamaha alnico 15W speaker, I would guess it is in the 94dB range, I have the heavier 60W speaker, big magnet along with tighter tolerances, measured it at about 100dB. The 15W I can crank the amp and still walk away without too much worry about my ears. The 60W, which does sound fantastic, I'll have to limit myself. That is the nice thing about some of the hifi speakers from about that time, they are not as efficient as high output guitar speakers so we can have our cake and eat it at home. Not all sound great, but some are decent. I really regret tossing the speakers, I had some Celestion speakers that (I found out later asking them if they had recone kits in the 90's) sounded very Marshall like. The speakers were actually made in the 40's and were not guitar speakers but hifi speakers. Boy they sounded sweet.
 

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
Components are here! I always have good experiences with the folks at Nextgen in Ottawa.

I am also progressing on my layout. I took RobRob’s DIYLC file and am carefully Eliminating most wires one at a time before moving things around. DIYLC is such a nice tool.
 

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
Having a bit of a dilemma here. The shape of the chassis is not ideal for mounting like a proper 5e3 (too tall and with tubes horizontal on the back, awkward for replacement and cooling, mechanically suspect). I am thinking of maybe mounting the chassis horizontally with tubes on the bottom and front controls, or even making it a head with tubes on top. More to come including sketches.
 

Jeru

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Posts
1,014
Location
Chicago
My $.02 -- I don't think at the end of the day that you care about doing it as a 'proper' 5e3.
You are enough of an out of the box thinker that you'll make it work however makes the most
sense. Honestly -- stare at the chassis long enough and it'll tell you how best to execute this.
Looking forward to next updates / good luck figuring it out / cheers.
 

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
You are enough of an out of the box thinker that you'll make it work however makes the most
sense.

Well, for this particular question, I have to think inside the box, as it were! But you are correct that strict Deluxe execution is not a high priority. Thanks for the kind words!
 

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
Progress Report!

As is now my MO, I spent a delightful hour yesterday with my sons going over my schematic systematically and selecting, testing and carefully pinning all my components to cards. This worked pretty well the last time around and makes for a neat visual way to check I haven’t missed anything.

C1B3774B-84F2-43C5-8D0D-9A5FBE50A752.jpeg


A few scares: I ordered 0.2 caps instead of 0.02 (but luckily I had a few extras from the tremolo project I dismantled) and I am missing one 1.5k resistor (but from RobRob’s site, it seems that some people are replacing those with bigger values for grid stoppers on the 6V6 so I can do that).

I haven’t produced a full layout yet, but from past experience I do better if I have the chassis in front of me anyways. So next step is mechanical work, drilling extra control holes, situating my IEC socket, clearing the eyelet board and reinstalling the original ground bus.

More to follow!

DACFEC2A-AD9D-4594-BE16-61F31F07CDBA.jpeg
 

FXBDM 1832

Tele-Meister
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Posts
161
Age
39
Location
Québec, Canada
Control drilling done. Input, input switch and 4 pots (master volume is the 4th).

The last hole I wasn’t planning on using, but maybe I will stick a light there. I am having second thoughts about my all-in-one IEC socket and might go for the smaller socket with separate fuse and light. Easier to cutout for one, plus by going with a two sided approach for the chassis I do have room.

The original holes were not perfectly equidistant so there is a bit of variation in the spacing but it runs around 25 mm center to center . A bit closer than the 30mm I saw on some plans, but I checked and the knobs should clear.

F69B3C72-0BD1-42B6-8CB0-F7B3E08D74BC.jpeg


This was all done with cheap step drills in a battery drill and did not cause any major difficulty beyond needing to clean the holes a bit for safety reasons.

I also enlarged the holes to fit my preamp tube sockets. The power tube holes are a mite small for the Belton sockets but I don’t have a step drill that large, so either I will carefully file away the excess or I might just buy another step drill.

I also realized I was out of pop rivets so I need a hardware store run anyways.

More to follow!
 
Top