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Fuzz Face / Rangemaster combination.

Discussion in 'Burnt Fingers DIY Effects' started by Bendyha, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Please take a look at my next planned project and see if you can spot any mistakes I might have made, or I could still avoid making.
    Also please let me share in any wisdom you might have into building these pedals, as this will be a first for me.
    I finally got around to testing some of the boxful of Germanium transistors we found in my son flat when he moved in, having first made a suitable tester like R.G.Keen suggests. Turns out I have three sets of ACxxx OCxx of suitable gain and emitter leakage of 0.09mA or better, to make three each of Fuzz Face and Rangemaster design. So I thought why not bang them in the same box, I'm sure it has been done often enough before now....but the only schematics I could find where the two are together, and combinable, seems to be the SUNLION, but that gives one the choice of FF alone, or FF running into a RM, but not the RM alone, which is what I was looking for. General view seems to be that putting the RM in-front of the FF makes little sense.
    I've drawn up a schematic that has a bypass/engage footswitch.
    A rotary switch to;
    1. disconnect battery (so that the pedal can be left on a boars without unplugging jacks)
    2. connect battery, and have FF or RM
    3. connect battery, and have FF into RM
    A second footswitch that changes the options set by position 2 & 3 above.

    I've also made a few changes minor from the originals, not too much, and nothing too original, all is well covered in most discussions about these pedals. I decided to add LED channel indicators to the schematic, but may change my mind about that, I power the RM LED from the FF battery to keep it out of the circuit when just the RM is engaged, and the other way around for the FF. When both are on, then the shared resistor should drop them down to negligible power draw.

    upload_2021-2-27_23-59-46.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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  2. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    If it were I; I would have one footswitch to engage rangemaster, and one to engage fuzz. (this then gives bypass / RM / FF / RM + FF).
    You could set it up so that each footswitch acts as a true bypass when disengaged.
    Also, could you get away with only one tone switch?
    I prefer simple.
     
  3. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    The option you suggest doesn't solve the battery switch problem, so it would need a third switch anyway. It also would not run the FF into the RM series, only place it parallel, which is unwanted...unless one could figure out a way to do it with two switches like you suggest, which I don't see a way of achieving. Also the requirements and values of the tone components are totally different for the two circuits, and therefore could not be shared.
     
  4. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    Run in series is easy.
    Use double pole switches (standard push-push DPDT footswitch). One pole connected across the circuit (input to output): the other pole connected to battery and LED.
    When the battery is connected to the circuit, the other pole is open (circuit is active): when the battery is open cct the circuit is shorted (true bypass).

    Do same for both circuits and run them in series with each other.
    (Actually there would be a problem running this in parallel: it wouldn't work in parallel.)

    You could also run both cct's from one battery (both circuits are simple and would not consume much power).
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  5. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    This is what I'm getting at ...
    SDIM1220.JPG
    Picture's worth 1000 words.

    If you are using different coloured LED's, you can adjust the individual R-led brightness (different colours require different current requirements).
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  6. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Could there be a reason that I don't seem to recall ever seeing a battery supply switching on/off with every tap on the a foot-switch like you are suggesting there ?
     
  7. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    Oh well ... cct #1 fail.
    How about this. (Same concept.)
    SDIM1221.JPG

    Das FuzzFacemitRangemasterpedal. Ja??
     
  8. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    That's better but you still need an extra switch to turn the battery on and off....one could switching pots, but they would be hard to find in the required values, and it means resetting every time you turn on and off.... or you could do switching jacks...but then you can't leave the pedal plugged in...so add an extra switch.
     
  9. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    Switching jack or extra switch works .... building it, you get to choose what you prefer.
    Extra switch on the side of the box ... Just have to remember to switch it off.
     
  10. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    So kbold, all you have done so far is offer me an inferior switching arrangement using the same number of switches, but requiring pressing two switches instead of one to change channel. Have you got any prawns to toss on my barbie, or did you just drop in for a squiz and offer a naff opinion....kinda like sprinkling the dessicated coconut to make lamingtons, while I'm talking about a trying to make a moist sponge with cream on top.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  11. dlew919

    dlew919 Doctor of Teleocity

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    I’ve been tossing up whether to build a treble booster or a fuzz.

    Maybe I’ll use this as inspiration and do both?
     
  12. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    I've offered 2 footswitches; one for the FF and one for the RM. I don't see how it could be simpler.
    Your setup has 2 footswitches and a rotary switch. I don't see how that is easier. o_Oo_O

    I was just offering advice ... no need to get nasty. Do what you like .. it's your pedal build.
     
  13. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Your setup also has 2 footswitches and needs a battery on/off switch- so the same number of switches. To change channels you must press both on yours, but only one on mine, I don't see how that yours is in any way easier, simpler ( other than 5 minutes of basic soldering ), or offers any advantages. The difference of parts costs is minimal in the broad picture, and a case to fit the project into will be no different in either.
    I'm not getting nasty, just matter of fact.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  14. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    My first thought was also just to build the one, couldn't decide which, and so started to look into a combination. There is quite a bit of very good stuff to be found written about both. Have you checked them out ? Here are a few links to what I found to be some of the more interesting sites.

    How to build a Rangemaster - R.G.Keen.pdf
    The Technology of the Fuzzface - R.G.Keen
    Fuzz-face analysis - Electrosmash
    Dallas Rangemaster Treble Booster analysis - Electrosmash
    Overdrive-fuzz-distortion-rangemaster-and-tube-screamer - M.Zollner.pdf
    Der Rangemaster rauscht-OC44.pdf - German
    Range-master - M-Zollner.pdf
    Discussion-about-fuzzface-batteries - Dingotone.pdf

    The only information I could find about combined pedals was a few things about the various versions of the Analogman Sunlion pedal....but more about that later.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
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  15. kbold

    kbold Friend of Leo's

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    When I initially said I prefer simple, I was referring to simple wrt to 'simple to use' (as opposed to simpler circuit wise or component wise).

    With your setup, how do you know what the rotary switch is set to? Also, all options are not available without using the rotary switch.
    (i.e. How do you change from RM to FF+RM with using the rotary switch?)

    With my setup, one switch activates FF, the other the RM. (Both on = both active; both off = bypass) IMO this is easier and foolproof for the user.

    As far as circuit and component complexity, they are somewhat equal.
     
  16. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    kbold, I will not deny that your system would work as you describe, I still see no advantage to the set-up.
    As to knowing which position the rotary switch is set to, I really don't think a quick glance at a chicken head knob would not be sufficient to refresh ones mind as to how one had set it.

    Judging with the limited experience I have, the nature of my musical requirements, what I have read about the germanium booster theme, and what I have gleaned from numerous film-clips, I believe I am best served with the option of being able to switch between two levels of effect escalation, in addition to the bypassed tone....I can then switch the channel on my amp to double the options to six settings.

    With a RM / FF option, with each circuit set to the desired contrasting/matching levels and tonal range, added to the vastly variable palate of tonal effect that these circuits make adjustable with the guitars volume control, there is more than enough going on to cover any tune I might play. This RM/FF change can be made with my circuit with one click, yours would require two.

    With a FF / FF+RM option, it appears that best results are achievable when the settings of the two circuits are somewhat different than one would set them if one was only using them individually, otherwise the uniqueness of the three transistor chain is overloaded and looses its subtler organic mojo of touch response and guitar volume knob adjustability. This for me is a good reason to separate the option as something different. After setting the rotary switch, FF/FF+RM change can be made with my circuit with one click, as it can with yours.

    Because the pedal will demand different settings between the RM/FF and the FF/FF+RM options, the adjustments can be made, and with one click I can switch between them and see at a glance at the switch as to how the pedal is set.

    I agree that with your switching circuit you may have the ability to change between RM/FF/FF+RM/bypass with your foot, but you will also probably not want to tap between all of those options without bending over and readjusting some of the tone switches and multiple potentiometers to suit the chosen option. Yes, it might suit you and others to set it up that way, but I really don't think I would be happy with it like that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
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  17. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    The three way rotary switch could easily be changed to a four throw switch, and then one could have the option of running the RM into the FF as well as the FF into the RM.
    Some people choose this option, and some install an extra switch to allow this.
    upload_2021-3-2_10-28-13.png ......But from what I have read and heard of the RM+FF, it is very fuzzy and not great sounding. Not a sound I would use. If a heavy distortion, then I'd choose another pedal better suited to the task. That is why I did not incorporate the option into this project.
     
  18. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I've made up a parts list to allow for a few variations, checked to see if my stock of resistors and caps covers everything, which it does, so I ordered the switches and potentiometers that where missing, plus a suitable case to house the pedal, and should be able to start breadboarding up a test circuit soon.

    Here a a few more links to interesting project relevant sites.
    The French pedal maker, Guitar Poppa, has a lot of information about all the Germanium transistors available, and tells which ones are suitable for what, and what the sound and qualities of the various types are.....a truly great resource.

    Germanium-Sonic properties


    Black-glass-transistors

    TO1-case-transistors

    Germanium-transistors-for-fuzz-1

    Germanium-transistors-for-fuzz-2

    Germanium-transistors-for-fuzz-3

    Germanium-transistors-for-fuzz-4
     
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