Fuel is too cheap?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Shango66, Nov 21, 2014.

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  1. bun malaey

    bun malaey Tele-Afflicted

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    Your forgetting cow and dog farts, the affect cow and dog farts is having on the environment is catastrophic.
     
  2. ItchyFingers

    ItchyFingers Tele-Afflicted

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    I paid $1.06 per litre yesterday for gas. That's about 4 bucks a US gallon. It's hard to imagine we are celebrating the low prices right now.
    It will soon be -20 to -30 c up here. I always scrape my windows while the car warms up. If you don't, the instant you start to drive the windows ice up on the inside.
    The nearest city has a 5 minute idling law which is never enforced simply because everyone understands that the police will charge you for driving with fogged up windows.
    I had to laugh one time when a certain Environment Minister gave a speech on the environment while her limo waited outside running. Owned.
    Soylent greeen is getting closer by the minute. Great movie.
     
  3. Brokenpick

    Brokenpick Tele-Afflicted

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    I've got to agree with the point BONES made -
    "Most people cannot even clean up after themselves "
    Perhaps "most" is a stretch... but, I've often said, if ya can't virtually eliminate LITTERING, you're really stretching to attempt tackling more complex and difficult issues....
    I also like the "balance" concept that was mentioned.

    Most surprising, is the notion that so many of us are apparently so wise nowadays. So much trumpeting of what "we" should do to make everything right.
    Amazing.
    We don't know how to BUILD a planet -but we know how to SAVE one!
    Just the other day, I was sitting idling in my big V8 powered truck, and saw some folks blogging away about my selfish fossil fuel wastery... the next day they all had new smart phones and tablets to continue sharing their wisdom... and their old ones were discarded and recycled.... and server new space was assembled and used to capture the extra cloud data but that used NO energy! And no fuel! And was TOTALLY NECESSARY... 'cuz it was techno stuff with social media and awesome... and therefore more better.
     
  4. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    And how dare you hang me with a new rope .
     
  5. drmcclainphd

    drmcclainphd Tele-Afflicted

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    That's 230 air conditioning. 2 windows down at 30 MPH. More windows or speed, fine. Less than 230 and it couldn't keep up with the heat.

    I guess that would be 48 in KPH for anyone living in a metricized country, but I don't know how many metric windows that would convert to. Maybe that's what function the now extinct "vent windows" played -- metric window conversion and equalization.

    For a long time this was the only cooling I used, even though I had A/C. I thought I was saving gas. Then someone pointed out that the A/C drags the engine power and gas milage down all the time whether it's turned on or not because the compressor is always putting drag on the motor via the belt. 230 is still the only cooling I use, but now I have to find other things to be smug about. Plus, I have a wife from Texas where A/C is a survival issue. You know all those cow skulls with horns you always see in conjunction with images of Texas and other southwestern states? They didn't have A/C. So she makes me use it if she's in the car. I tried being smug at those dead longhorns, but they didn't care.
     
  6. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Yeah, but you don't actually do those things anyway.

    I don't have any kids, but I used way more than my share of gas today. Yeah, 30.5 mpg sounds great but I went 600 miles (and I did 600 on Friday and I'll do 600 on Wednesday).

    Btw, $ 2.45 a gallon, North side of Harrisonburg.
     
  7. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    True, but that just makes my carbon footprint really really tiny.
     
  8. Justinvs

    Justinvs Poster Extraordinaire

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    From Wikipedia - (I found several Government pdf's dealing with wildfire emissions, but they were too lengthy to quote)

    Emissions Grams of Emission / Kilogram of Fuel Burned Percentage
    Carbon Dioxide 1564.8 71.44%
    Water 459.2 20.97%
    Carbon Monoxide 120.9 5.52%
    Atmospheric particulate matter <2.5μ 10.3 0.47%
    Nitric Oxide 8.5 0.39%
    Methane 5.9 0.27%
    Volatile Organic Compounds 5.2 0.24%
    Organic Carbon 5.2 0.24%
    Non-methane Hydrocarbon 4.3 0.20%
    Particulate Matter > 10μ 3.8 0.17%
    Particulate Matter <10μ and >2.5μ 1.9 0.09%
    Elemental Carbon 0.4 0.02%

    How many tons per day burned would have varied, given some of the area was grassland and brush while most was old growth forest with significant dead-fall present. Also, most of the fuel consumed was underbrush and downed trees, leaving the skeletons of thousands of trees to decay and thus release their carbon load over the next three or four decades. The area burned was in excess of 80 square miles. For more than six weeks we lived under a stage three air pollution alert and the smoke plume was easily visible from space as witnessed by weather satellite imagery. Every morning a dusting of ash and partially consumed pine needles covered most exposed surfaces.

    Montana had at the time, iirc, 7 coal fired power plants in operation. Not sure of the amount of vehicles in operation during the same period, but roughly .5- 1.5 million vehicles, so I sure the amount would have been substantial, but in sheer volume would not have equaled this one fire on a daily basis.
     
  9. Nick JD

    Nick JD Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Bit of a difference between trees that took up their carbon within the last hundred years (or maybe even the last 20) and were burnt and had their carbon oxidised and put back into the atmosphere ... than a tree from the carboniferous.

    Quite a bit.
     
  10. Justinvs

    Justinvs Poster Extraordinaire

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    Carbon is carbon.
     
  11. Nick JD

    Nick JD Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    :lol:

    Saying carbon is carbon is like saying a credit card with a $100,000 limit on it is the same as $100,000 in cash.

    Think about it.
     
  12. Shango66

    Shango66 Friend of Leo's

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    Op again.
    Yesterday was 30 degrees C (and great beach day)
    Someone in my apartment block uses the clothes dryer instead of hanging the clothes out on the line.
    They dry quicker on the line in this weather, for free!
     
  13. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Great information. However, don't just compare the one fire in that area to the factories and cars just in that area. Compare all the fires in the world in a year to all of the human-generated carbon in the world in a year. Fires don't burn in every part of every country every day of the year. Humans generate that stuff every single moment of the year, in pretty much every region of the planet.
     
  14. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    The fact that all that carbon is underground having already been exchanged by trees for oxygen is part of why we are here alive right now.
     
  15. Nick JD

    Nick JD Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    That's a very glass-half-full way of looking at it! :D

    Still, the fact remains that burning trees (or biofuel) now ... and having next year's biofuel crop reclaiming that CO2 is very, very different than using the crops from 300-20 million years ago. That's a lot of crops!

    There's no way the world biomass can reclaim our current fossil fuel emission levels without some serious (and potentially scary) bioengineering. However, the carbon cycle can cope with it's non-human variability quite well. Sure, it waxes and wanes, but we dig up and burn what took epochs to lay down - and this is why I used the credit card analogy: burning FFs is spending credit; burning trees is spending cash.

    Fertilizing the oceans is an interesting one though.
     
  16. Justinvs

    Justinvs Poster Extraordinaire

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    I won't argue global output. I wasn't clear in my earlier post that I was speaking of my region. One wildfire easily tops the rest of Montana's carbon output.

    I don't care what happens in the rest of the world! :lol:
     
  17. Justinvs

    Justinvs Poster Extraordinaire

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    Despite what a lot of you might think, the jury is still out on the entire CO2 warming effect. A lot of the science behind the theory hasn't held up to scrutiny.

    One thing I am curious about. Assuming CO2 does trap infrared energy, shouldn't it also reflect a similar amount of the same wavelength of direct sunlight back into space?
     
  18. rokdog49

    rokdog49 Friend of Leo's

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    You can't legislate personal responsibility. End of story.
     
  19. Shorecaster

    Shorecaster Tele-Holic

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    On the flip side it does give the oil a chance to turn from molasses to the viscosity the engine needs.
     
  20. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    You know, I tend to have that same viewpoint. :lol:
     
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