For the new car paranoid.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by imwjl, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. dickey

    dickey Tele-Afflicted

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    Stupidest idea ever; just another gummint plot to make us more stupid & dependant on them. Perfect for nanny states like Kalifornia & NY.
     
  2. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Afflicted

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    Again, I tend to look at it from a socioeconomic frame of reference. I am in no way against autonomous driving, or even no driving. I say that as someone who absolutely loves to drive.

    Billions are being invested. But the primary movers are profit-driven. I will try my darnedest to not wax political here, but the reality is that federal and state investment in road and grid infrastructure is a tiny percentage of what it was post-war, when the interstates made our country into suburbs, decades before the internet was even a sparkle in Al Gore's eye. Our current political narrative and trajectory is anything but reversing the trend of privatizing utilities and infastructure. Rural America, despite being traditionally conservative socially and economically, is ground zero for lack of real long term technological investment. A very large chunk of WV doesn't even get cel reception, much less broadband internet.

    The vast majority of the country is not Palo Alto. Investors want return on their investment. Rural counties are simply not ever going to get the financial and political reward that will drive Amazon to invest in appropriate infrastructure for autonomous and/or vastly improved public transportation.

    EDIT: Oh but telecoms like us to think they will. A very cursory google search can tell the story of telecom "investment" in WV in the last decade. They gots the fed money, and did absolutely nothing with it, BTW.

    Just while I was writing this I got a text from my wife. She was able to pick our son up during her lunchtime to get him to work, a 20-30 minute drive one-way during lunchtime traffic. He has his license, but his sister has their car. He waited for the city bus twice - both were way off schedule. His job is at the university downtown, and we only live a few miles away. But the area is still rural. The bus system is what it is here. More buses would not necessarily solve the problem. When roads are spread out and follow no development grid, public transportation tends to be unreliable and inconsistent. It just does. The bus only costs him a dollar, which is wonderful. 'Cuz it costs us quite a bit in gas and time when we can't utilize it.
     
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  3. boredguy6060

    boredguy6060 Friend of Leo's

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    And what if the computer mis- interprets that as a voice command?
    You’re going down the road, you lean in for a left cheek sneak and bam! the hood flies open.
    The future is definitely not for the faint of heart.
     
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  4. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I get all that. It's harsh but I believe the US is what I think I read from David Kastenbaum in our last recession - we have good America and broken America.

    Our home and cottage are perfect illustrations. Home is good America. Good planning, biotech, high tech, genetics, finance, health care, and telecom while others did old school industrial parks. Next door is we have a major university, regional health care, and a lot of genetics related business. Where our cabin is they keep dreaming of making machines, paper and tourism like decades past with a that will teach 'em attitude as they gut education and can't repair the streets.

    There is enough healthy America and urban growth to support better transportation systems. It doesn't happen overnight just like car charging or a next get GPS will be a few or years down the road. In another post I said I was on a city council committee in 2006 that started things it took years to see or for people to appreciate.

    We are hardly Palo Alto or others places I've travelled to or know. We're fly over country. Geography and resources can certainly help but sagacity doesn't have city or political boundaries.

    :)
     
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  5. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Neither was the past for the faint of heart.
     
  6. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Afflicted

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    My take is that I worry that it gets easy to lose sight of the goal. If environmental concerns, including that of climate change, is driving technological advances toward promoting and advancing only the good America, then we've lost, IMO.

    I live in a coal producing state. While I'm the first to look toward the day when we finally (if actually) significantly reduce our collective reliance on it fossil fuels, I can't help but recognize who wins and who loses. I'm not talking merely politically here. The reality is that coal and chemical companies learned long ago how to screw over their communities and labor force and still come out the heroes. And sadly enough of the populace will still continue to buy the lie that coal companies just need more money and less regulation in order to keep their jobs and communities from dying. Regardless of whether I agree with them or not, these are real people with real lives. ALOT needs to happen, IMO, before we should be gunning toward the future of transportation. There is lot of yesterday and today's infrastructure, education, health, technology, and distribution networks that needs serious fixing before that. But that's not where private investment likes to go.
     
  7. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

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    What I would worry about more than GPS hacking (if I was the type to worry about this stuff) is the supply chain for technology that goes into self-driving cars. That is currently a concern for many other industries besides auto makers though; not a unique issue for cars, and maybe delves into political topics about which we can't discuss.
     
  8. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Poster Extraordinaire

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    I had forgotten you used to drive a truck, TD......you probably witnessed as much or more than I have the proliferation of "driverless" cars. I see them on a daily basis. Oh!, there's a person sitting in the front left-hand seat, sometimes (not always) with a hand or two on the steering wheel, but they're doing everything BUT DRIVING!!!!!!!
    I was taught to drive by my grandmother about 55 years ago, and she was an incredible and skilled driver. She taught me nuances of driving that I passed on to my daughter and grandson. Of the MANY important aspects she taught me, foremost was PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND YOU......not just what's in front, but what's in back, to both sides, even above you. (trees have fallen onto roads after all) As today's cars have so many features to make them easier and safer to drive, we seem to accumulate more and more "distractions".
    I'll be the first to acknowledge we can never stop "progress".....but that doesn't mean we have to like it.....or not "whine" about it. ;)
     
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  9. unixfish

    unixfish Poster Extraordinaire

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    Can relate. We took my wife's new Mazda on vacation earlier this month. I had the laser cruise set at around 70 on our way to Virginia. The roads through PA and Maryland are curvy, with the PA Turnpike having a wall in the center.

    One instance the highway was curving left, and a highway exit went straight and was fairly short. The car in front of me signalled, and got off the highway, slowing down quickly. Well, just as they were slowing, the laster noticed the car "right in front of me" slowing down, and applied the brakes somewhat aggressively - in 70 MPH traffic. Oops. I had to get on the loud pedal quickly to avoid an incident.

    PA turnpike. Concrete divider with only about 5 feet of room to the left of the line before the wall. When the road curved right, the laser cruise noticed the wall and started slowing down. After this happened about 4 times, I disabled the laser cruise and just used the "regular cruise".

    Don't get me wrong - 99% of the time, the laser cruise works well. These are just two specific examples where it didn't. I'm sure the driverless systems would see the lines in the road, notice the curve and adjust no problem. But, snow, or hard rain in fog where the lines are obscured, or leaves on a fall day, and, uh, how do it know? GPS probably - but that is a lot of trust to be to-the-foot precise. Again, specific instances where these systems would on the whole be a benefit.

    I had the laser sensor get snowed over last winter. When that happened, the car chimed and put up a message that "auto cruise sensor blocked and disabled" or something like that. Cool - I just disabled the laser cruise, and used the regular cruise. No biggie.

    I am curious how the override feature will be handled / implemented.
     
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  10. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    I find it ironic that high tech products being produced in the guise of saving the environment all have a limited life. None of these new aged cars will be functional 50 years from being purchased. I'm also tipping that more health problems will be linked to their use in the future. They will end up in the scrap heap or being recycled which also creates pollution.

    Maybe the best thing we can do for the environment is to stop increasing population numbers and production. Produce what we need locally rather than shipping everything we use from the other side of the planet and build stuff to last as long as possible rather than everything being disposable and constantly up for replacement.

    Profits are not maximised with my way of thinking and the zombies don't get their shiny new gadgets to keep them happy for the short term.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
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  11. william tele

    william tele Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    So, in lieu of high tech hacking skills, if a car requires clearly marked lanes, what's to keep me from getting a can of dark grey paint to cover over the clearly marked lane and using a can of white to create my own lane directing the vehicle off the side of a cliff?
     
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  12. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Did he include the emissions produced due to manufacturing these new cars? Sourcing the materials used and shipping them around the planet? How much more pollution people will need to produce to fund the purchase of one of these cars and scrap their current functional cars?

    It starts with large diesel loaders, trains and mining machinery mining in my country for raw materials, then the materials are shipped on diesel powered ships to china where they take over. Then the vehicle gets shipped around the world and the finance debt interest takes over. What emissions the vehicle puts out are pretty much irrelevant by then.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  13. brookdalebill

    brookdalebill Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    I would be new car paranoid, except for the fact that I am lottery dependent on considering one.
    I haven’t bought a ticket in at least ten years.
    Whew!
     
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  14. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    You might not have a choice in years to come if they make it a safety and environmental requirement for all vehicles on the road to be electric and on this driverless system. It will happen if there are enough profits to be made.
     
  15. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I struggle to believe that anything could make us 'more stupid'

    and now, I shall peruse the 'florida man' thread.
     
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  16. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I was just thinking about all the back holler Mountain people I know who (for example) didn't have power for 5 hours on Saturday morning/afternoon. A big storm. No power means no mobility and it also means, can't get in the car to cool off in its AC or listen to the radio to see what's going on. They're 14 miles from town and few could walk that far in the heat/humidity.

    So now, proud but materially poor people are going to have basically all of their access to Creature Comforts shut off when the power goes off. And it goes off pretty often. Instead of distilling moonshine, they'll be distilling alcohol to run cars off of the Government says they cannot have.

    People in the City are so myopic.
     
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  17. Buckocaster51

    Buckocaster51 Super Moderator Staff Member Ad Free Member

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    Here’s a question for all of you “I ain’t ever going to confirm” Luddites:

    How many of you drive cars with automatic transmissions with the “standard” PRNDL selection pattern?

    :)

    We aren’t as free thinking as we like to think we are.

    On another note, here in the freeze-thaw-apply salt-freeze-thaw snow belt, lane markings last less than a year, and are generally not applied that often

    My buddy’s self-driving Tesla is pretty groovy, except for when it isn’t.

    On the final note, now that I have 15hW of PV generation sitting in my yard, I am waiting eagerly for the day when Ford makes a plug-in hybrid small (2010-sized) pickup.

    Oh yeah!
     
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  18. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    there is no real fear of that as Wile E. Coyote is a cartoon character....

    There is an On Star commercial where the On Star guy comes on the air and calls out to a woman... quickly, the viewer realizes that she has run off the road, crashed and is trapped in her car and has a head injury. She is confused and comments that it all happened so fast (or something like that.)

    Humans make A LOT of mistakes that cause death. LOTS. MOST.

    The percent of driver error to equipment failure issues that result in dead are not even close to even...

    The issue I referenced is temporary... there are lots of smart people working on it and they will figure it out... I'd guess, in the future, someone will try that and MAYBE one car will come close to going off the cliff, but what will be cool is that when the first car encounters the 'difference' and finds the issue, it will alert ALL other cars, no additional issues... this is much better than the wreck traps I have seen where multiple cars get collected by the same hazard.
     
  19. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Too true. If history is a teacher, the same poverty that led to their gas tanks being perpetually empty will also ensure that during the 5 hour power outage NONE of their cars will be charged... of course, if the power is off, the cash registers won't work either which will make dispensing opiods impossible. Moonshine it is! Covites Unite!
     
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  20. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    The Honda he traded had 279,000 miles. That high mileage was part of all he considered. He tries to have what I call a small foot print in most of what he does. His homework included researching the Tesla factory battery recycling. As said, he did the local utility's green energy program that uses or taps the hydro, solar and wind vs their gas powered plants.

    I'm not where you're getting that a Model 3 gets shipped around the world when this guy lives in the US, and when Tesla has bucked a lot of manufacturing traditions in addition to the US assembly. His and my homework gave the impression Tesla doesn't use all or many of the same suppliers the rest of the industry does.

    Before retirement as a scientist this guy's (Model 3 owner) day job was taking things apart and putting them together at the molecular level. He did a crazy amount of research on the Tesla decision and with breadth that would probably seem obsessive to many. It seems like he made a reasonable or down right good decision for his circumstances.
     
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