For the new car paranoid.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by imwjl, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,799
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bakersfield
    One of my biggest fears is that in the brave new world of self driving cars, I will end up like Jack the baboon. Whereas I will be stationed in a little shack beside the world's intersection of self driving cars, and will be responsible for setting the signals that allow them to drive madly through the intersection at a horrendous rate of speed.
     
    Chunkocaster likes this.
  2. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    35,992
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    San Benito County, California
    for now.. (parking lots are fine) but the rest pose some challenges... they'll figure it out!
     
  3. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,933
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Location:
    WV
    A friend of mine has a gorgeous Camry she bought new recently. Broken side mirror was ~$500 to replace, without a new housing. Big crack in the housing, but she figured she already paid enough to fix the mirror. Hard choice to make on new, expensive and very beautiful car.

    Heated mirror with camera and sensors, I believe. Yeah. What used to cost a few dollars to replace down at the auto parts store, is now hundreds and requires a mechanic, who in turn is only getting paid part of the labor, minus the parts, which ain't cheap. The only folks coming out on top in this deal is the auto and OEM parts manufactures.

    How we every survived as a species without heated mirrors or side view cameras is anyone's guess.
     
  4. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,933
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Location:
    WV
    If we live that long. Climate change and all. OK I need to get back to work.
     
    nojazzhere likes this.
  5. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    35,992
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    San Benito County, California
    you are a genius! why the rest of the world is not listening to you is outrageous! Your way of thinking JUST WORKS.
     
    Chunkocaster, Harry Styron and imwjl like this.
  6. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,077
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    We don't really have a driverless world yet. It might be generations before that could occur. We do have very good steps toward that. What ones have you driven, owned or ridden in to be so sure?

    My experiences are limited. Between family, friends and work associates we have Subaru, Honda (Acura), Toyota, Volvo, Cadillac & Tesla late model vehicles. The bits they all have now really demonstrate how significant this is. They all demonstrate how a family member we lost in car accident would be alive if all the vehicles involved had something as crude as Subaru's front facing cameras. The Tesla systems a friend and family member have are more sophisticated.

    Last week I had two rotten work days that made 8 hours of sleep over two days. I was very glad I had my crude Subaru system and it's nav map on plus my phone driving home from data center after 1 AM. The day before it was urban rush our traffic in construction. Just like my Boeing 777 and Airbus 321 driving friends who love it in their planes and cars, I had some aids that made it safer for anyone in the neighborhood.

    I'm a little bit aware of how much care is going on in the development and go with Getbent's Hoover Dam analogy. I live in a major university metro area where the engineering school and some startups work on this stuff. An acquaintance has an AI startup based on his Phd work done here. An acquaintance has a firm that supplies intellectual property to Honda. There's incredible amounts of collaboration, testing, and also referring to history going on. As bad as the recent Boeing story is, we're still doing better than the same industry just a few decades ago.

    The firm slips my tongue at the moment but one of the autonomous driving startups is concentrating on the vehicle interoperability. You have to know firms like that and the military are addressing security old technology doesn't have. Doesn't the GPSIII I think the military started launching last year have security?

    You have to face it. Robots are already doing a lot of work around us and it will increase. I'm a lot more worried about people who do not have or pursue skills the world pays a living wage for than I am on this topic.
     
  7. Mexitele Blues

    Mexitele Blues Tele-Meister

    Age:
    41
    Posts:
    332
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2018
    Location:
    Westminster, CO
    I hear that the Tesla can't make it over a one-lane bridge.

     
    geoff_in_nc likes this.
  8. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,077
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    One of my Tesla owning friends should be noted. He's a retired scientist who did an incredible amount of homework on this including the green energy option his utility has. Even with higher cost green service he says his "full tank" and general driving is a fraction of what it used to cost. He said even though he's got a great driving record just the safety systems make him feel better about the purchase. The average sticker price for a car sold in USA 2018 was between the base Model 3 and the car he bought.

    Car accidents are one of the most costly public health problems we have. We're already where many base model cars have new generation safety systems. The auto industry's self-imposed standard for AEB is like 2 years away. For the safety part, the whole fleet of what everyone drives will have it.
     
    Chunkocaster likes this.
  9. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,933
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Location:
    WV
    Wellllll... from a cost perspective I don't think he's too way off.

    I can't begin to guess what environmental impact an automonous or semi-autonomous vehicle is. But I do think that even the most base models of autos are getting very cost prohibitive for the average car buyer. Motors and trannys seem to last longer than they used to, which is great. But the safety and computerized components are so drastically increasing and rapidly changing that a car even a few years old can be considered out of date WRT safety and security features. For one thing, they are becoming increasingly required on new vehicles yearly. But electronic parts wear out, have a limited code support time-frame, and are ridiculously expensive to replace.

    As a parent of young drivers, this concerns me. No longer can parents or grandparents just pass down an older vehicle to a teenager or college student. Certainly neither can afford a new or 'good' used car, either. And buying an older car is an increased risk due to outdated parts and technology. It's a brave new world.

    This is only going to get worse with newer technologies.
     
  10. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,077
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    You need to step outside of your worldview. The brave new world will be very different if you're not in a rural area or niche. There will be less car ownership. Better urban planning is on the rise. What I thought might be a Tesla Model 3 or Chevy Bolt might be keeping my Outback wagon for old school and getting a Trek Super Commuter or subscription to the new fleet of e assist bike share system here.

    In some situations I can already bike to my data center same as or faster than go by car. For sure if I will sweat. If you pedal to the express bus stop you get a little exercise and 20 minutes to read "the paper", something else or play your video game. Girl watching can be very good when you're on those peak work time express busses.
     
    Toto'sDad likes this.
  11. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,799
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bakersfield
    There are just a few things that need fixing, besides self driving cars before my world view undergoes a great deal of change.

    Never mind, I posted a pic that might be construed as something that might be against the rules. At any rate, the self driving car is not going to happen in my lifetime, and I'm kind of glad for that.
     
    nojazzhere likes this.
  12. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,933
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Location:
    WV
    One of the biggest reasons my wife and I made sure our kids learned to drive and get licensed is because we are in a rural area, and we see first hand how car ownership and driving has drastically decreased for younger ages. This is very bad, because being in a rural area, you need wheels to get to work and school, and escape the heroin, meth, and unwanted pregnancy trap. I'm not even remotely kidding. I love to see a world with better public transportation and less fossil fuel burning, believe me on that. But the reality is that technology tends to benefit the haves first and foremost.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  13. Rustbucket

    Rustbucket Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,907
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2016
    Location:
    Arizona
    On the bright side, I bet those folks at least aren’t worried about the safety or technology of autonomous vehicles.
     
    Toto'sDad likes this.
  14. getbent

    getbent Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    35,992
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    San Benito County, California

    don't look up! if you do, you'll clearly see the handles on the handbasket!

    DOOMED, I tell you DOOMED!

    My son's first truck 6 years ago was a... wait for it.... 1967 Jeep Gladiator! whaaaaat? Then he had an 03 F350, then a honda, then a trailblazer, now a 2010 ford edge. We've worked on ALL of them. The Jeep WAS hard to find parts for, but I found them (the evil internet to the rescue!)

    I bought an 06 Ford F150 a couple of years ago for 5K. I get parts for it all the time and they are not crazy expensive, found OEM replacement leather for the seats etc... it has the DOOMED 5.4 3 cam phaser engine.. only 180K miles on it thus far without a rebuild, but, I dunno, I just don't trust it!

    I'd note that all of my kids got hand me down vehicles from grandparents, parents or uncles... whacho talkin bout mang?
     
  15. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,077
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    How do you know this for sure? My high mileage Prius owners and the high mileage Ford hybrids where I work are economical and serviceable. Following Tesla, I recall news of the battery recycling program - materials used again. Apple's recycling robots have been in the news.

    Look how many $ billions are being invested. Then look at the old and new players. VW's been one of the largest car makers and they've bet the farm on this stuff. The evidence keeps showing up that Apple's still in it. Read the recent New York Times article on the state of charging networks. We are in at a time close to or when we'll see much change.

    Young drivers? We have 3. It would be ideal if they were not in cars altogether. My twins just got home from summer school on bikes. One will ride 16 more miles for his job this afternoon. There is some risk but they follow no car bike routes. Not doing as so many kids do now has really helped us have 3 teens who are strong across the board - their bodies, brains, and they have grit.
     
  16. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,077
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Location:
    My mom's basement.
    I so enjoy your contributions here. I sure hope this is not your last day. It's not everything but self-driving cars are here already. You might be right if you mean a world with no steering wheel but we already have vehicles driving themselves.

    What current autonomous tech does is probably the most important - accident reduction.
     
    Toto'sDad likes this.
  17. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,799
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bakersfield
    A worldview that does not include the reality of seven billion people vying for space on the planet and growing every day is not a workable one. To be honest, I wish I had a self driving car at my disposal, be pretty cool not to have to take driving tests, and pay all the associated costs of having an automobile. In reality, the self driving car is probably gonna happen about the time the bullet train starts making regular runs between Frisco, and San Diego.
     
    nojazzhere likes this.
  18. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,799
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bakersfield
    I'm not opposed to self driving cars. When I drove a diesel truck for a living, I saw every idiotic maneuver one can imagine being done by unsafe drivers. From being out in the world from here to across the country I fear that the whole mess of transportation thing is just too big a job to tackle with technology. We are going both directions at a high rate of speed in this country, towards the world of tomorrow, and towards a head on collision with the practical problems of a society not really equipped to deal with even the simplest everyday problems. I hope your vision is right, I don't have to, or even want to be right. I fear though, that I am.
     
    P Thought and nojazzhere like this.
  19. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    38,799
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bakersfield
    To be fair, I haven't driven a car with this feature: My sister in law got a new car recently that has some "safety features." She said that it's so cool that when a car comes up close to you the steering wheel starts shaking, and tugging in your hands. I just said, that's cool. What I was thinking was okay, you're traveling on a road that is iced over, and a car gets to close to you, and the steering wheel starts shaking and tugging, you lose control of the vehicle and end up, upside down in a bar ditch.
     
    nojazzhere likes this.
  20. SolidSteak

    SolidSteak Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,785
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Location:
    USA
    After some further reading it seems to me like the GPS spoofing problem already has some potential solutions from other GPS applications:
    "Effective GPS Spoofing Detection Utilizing Metrics from Commercial Receivers"
    https://web.stanford.edu/group/scpn...rbinManfredini_IONITM_2018_SpoofDetection.pdf

    So if the Tesla's GPS had something like Signal Quality Monitoring or Power Monitoring, perhaps it could easily detect the attempt to spoof the signal?
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.