For beginner players: modeling amp, pedals or both?

[JBFatFingers]

(Mods, feel free to re-categorize as needed.)

So I've only been playing for about 5-6 months - on a bit of a whim, signed up for lessons and bought myself a Tele and a plain Jane practice amp (20W Acoustic brand). I'm making decent progress and after playing around with a modeling amp recently at GC I thought it would be nice to have some different tone/effect options to experiment with. It seems like an inexpensive modeling amp would be the easiest way for a beginner to do that, but I wondered if there's something to be said for sticking with a more basic amp and picking up a few pedals to play around with. Would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.

 

[MMARSH]

It would be hard to beat something like the Boss Katana 50 for you. It not only gives you 5 basic amp sounds, you get something like 50 different pedals with it. Part of learning is to get your sound and this would be a way to do that without a huge investment. Keep up the lessons and exploring tone!

 

[muchxs]

I lived through the hard rock "rack era". The theme was ever more complicated rigs incorporating studio quality effects.

Modeling amps are an outgrowth of that. The idea is to emulate thousands of dollars worth of gear for pennies on the dollar.

I've some full circle. Way I figure it the most basic amp I can find will do the trick. Even better if it's a tube amp.

Although the Tech 21 Trademark 30 is a small miracle. It's all analog and very flexible.

Pedals are like booze and dope. You'll be better off if you don't become dependent on them.

 

[homesick345]

stay away from modelling/digital stuff, at this stage at least. You don't need gazillion sounds & effects. This will only ruin your feel & playing - not to mention the constant distraction of fiddling with menus.

A basic amp, tube or solid state - an overdrive pedal; is all you need for now (& probably later)

 

[MMARSH]

muchxs, you've come to that conclusion after a lot of experience which the OP does not have. It may well be that he (she?) comes to the same conclusion but probably after the same amount of experience The Katana is like the Tech 21 in that it's not a digital modeler, and there are other analog and hybrid candidates (Fender Super Champ X series for e.g.). I look at them as fast track devices to tone for beginners because they are inexpensive and encourage exploration.

Plus, pedals are not like booze and dope, and I can quit pedals any time. Really. I can.

 

[neckradius]

Modeling will be the most fun for now. If you keep playing you might eventually want a tube amp and some pedals, so you could skip to that now if you don't want to have to buy more down the road, but a modeling amp will be the most fun and cost effective in the short term.

 

[ebb soul]

IMO, modeling is the best entry way to determine what actual pedals to buy later.
You won't need all 183 sounds.
But you can make a whittled down list of the ones that work best for you.
Or you may simply find the modeling good enough.
The caveat with modeling and beginners is to much time will be given to 'toying with fx', and not really playing.

Don't even get me started on the editing.
Hours, nay DAYS lost here.

 

[dkmw]

You don't say what kind of music you're working on or aspire to; and that could be a factor.

If power/volume isn't a requirement, the Yamaha THRs are hard to beat for a variety of practice-volume sounds.
And those are good sounds, in many people's opinions.

Another thing I like about the Yamaha is that you don't have to get too deep into the tech side to get those good sounds.

 

[FrancoisVillon]

Watch out for people using this forum to advertise shoddy amps they don't build or service properly.

 

[ebb soul]

I would recommend, however, not to get a 'modeling amp' rather a modeling floorboard, perhaps used, and keep the amp you have now.
This will give you two ways to change or upgrade latter.
Nic the amp, or the floorboard.
You can always play the floorboard thru headphones.

If you HAVE to go modeling amp, I'd say fender champ XD or mustang. They are both lovely.
Avoid the low end spyders.
Crap cab, crap speaker.

 

[john_cribbin]

Well depends of your budget.

I've got both options, a modelling amp plus a valve amp and pedals.

Currently I have six pedals, none of which are 'boutique'. All well respected models and all bought secondhand on a large auction site. Reality, I've more invested in a handful of secondhand pedals, than buying a Fender Mustang III v2 new.

I would opt for a modelling amp. You get to hear what the classic amps sound like without spending big money. You can identify the type of amp you like and the tone you want.

After that, add some effects and see how they grab you. If all that spurs you into a traditional amp setup, great. If you're happy staying with the modeller great.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

No matter what kind, buy a used amp.

 

[stratoman1]

Just stick with a decent little amp for now, tubes are great. Personally, I love Blackstar amps. They come in a whole range of prices too. But at this point just learn to play. It's a bit early to start playing with pedals. Learn what YOU sound like first. Then worry about colors later when you figure out what you're really looking for

 

[grim83]

I think it really depends on you and what you want. Modelling amps are great for versatility and cost, but they can also be very distracting with all the options (the more options at your disposal is a double edge sword). I bought a mustang to cure my curiosity and spent a few weeks making patches that were pretty good...and now it sits in the corner because while nice it got too distracting. Also you may find you prefer the analog route, I personally prefer an amp with its own personality than a Jack of all trades so to speak.

Short story is ask yourself 2 things.

1. How easily distracted are you?

2. What is your budget?

If you believe you won't be distracted by the options then by all means, otherwise stay away from modellers. Also set a budget and make the best of it.

 

[ebb soul]

Lol, if I had modeling when I was 12, it would have saved me about $3000. by now.
At least.
I would not have bought and traded so much.
I would have had a much clearer idea of what I really wanted, without going to the store a thousand times, or not having MY guitar or MY amp to demo stuff on.
Modeling is essentially 'the whole store in a box'.

But the caveat is clear, can you disipline yourself to play, vrs, 'play around with tones'.
The plus side is you can record with just modeling.
They most always come bundled with software.
You cannot record with just an amp.

 

[oldfish]

stick to what you have now and hone your skills first I have people I'm teaching to play who seem to spend more time messing with amps then with guitar practice.

 

[neckradius]

I disagree with those who say a beginner shouldn't worry about effects. Can they be a distraction? Sure. But if you want to feel like you can really play a song, and the song has a prominent effect like phaser or wah, having the effect can be the difference between feeling like hey, I'm really doing it and eh, I guess I'm learning, but I don't know why it doesn't sound right. Even with songs with subtle effects that I think I know and have played for years, I'll throw on a little delay and all of a sudden it's like oh, of course. Now I really sound like The record. It's fun. And an important part of being a beginner is having fun

 

[Stingfan73]

(Mods, feel free to re-categorize as needed.)

So I've only been playing for about 5-6 months - on a bit of a whim, signed up for lessons and bought myself a Tele and a plain Jane practice amp (20W Acoustic brand). I'm making decent progress and after playing around with a modeling amp recently at GC I thought it would be nice to have some different tone/effect options to experiment with. It seems like an inexpensive modeling amp would be the easiest way for a beginner to do that, but I wondered if there's something to be said for sticking with a more basic amp and picking up a few pedals to play around with. Would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this.

I would go the pedal route for these reasons:

-Dollar for dollar of a modeling amp versus a non-modeling amp, I find a non-modeling amp simply sounds better, and the dollars spent that way tends to find a better, fundamental tone of the amp.

-Modelling amps have a bunch of effects and and interfaces that are not always easy to use or to edit, and the effects themselves are not always or often as good as, or as easy to tinker with as stomp boxes.

-Often times the modeling patches are stocked with multiple effects stacked onto one another, and it's hard, through the interfaces to deconstruct them enough to see what each effect imparts on the whole sound or patch.

-There is, when dialed in, a nice, holistic dynamic between guitar, guitar tone and volume knobs, decent overdrive/distortion pedals and the amp that becomes clear through the guitar to pedal to amp route where you can really learn the relationships between these things in a way that is much harder to do if not impossible to do with an all-in-one modeling amp.

-I prefer an additive process of building understanding of sound and tone that is the output of a guitar speaker, than a necessarily subtractive process of having an all-in-one box, where I try (with varying levels of success) to isolate elements, and to understand what each element imparts and contributes to the sound.

I understand the convenience for folks to find an all-in-one solution, but for the most part I don't recommend that. I recommend folks learn the additive dynamic of learning the interactiveness of a guitar system through guitar to pedals to amp so that they BUILD KNOWLEDGE of each piece.

There are times where I would recommend an all-in-one amp, and that tends to be for people who having been playing a while, that already understand the guitar-pedal-amp dynamic, and are looking for some basement practice amp, or a throw it in the car for vacation kind of thing, etc...

I love it when a new or relatively new guitarist is interested in some pedals and going that route. IMO, a few essentials:
Reverb
Overdrive
Distortion

With just these few pedals alone, there are tons of sounds available from just these few starting points. And it's a great place to start with pedals.

I might later add, with sparing use, maybe a chorus or delay or flange, depending on your inspirations and needs, but if I had nothing but those three (Reverb, Overdrive, Distortion), I could play 90% of what I want to play without being tonally or artistically emasculated. The rest is just icing on the cake, and it is precisely the options of such icing and the kitchen sink in the all-in-one modeling amps that is often such a distraction for new players. "Gee wiz, I got 40 different amp models and 80 effects algorithms in one box." Meanwhile Gary Clark, Robert Cray and so many others out on the road and in the studio conjure up all these great tones with a very small core of pedals and amps which they truly "play" just as much as the guitar itself to create these wonderful sounds we're so inspired by.

My, uh.... more than two cents.

 

[ebb soul]

Also, most songs you'll want to emulate are loaded with fx.
Many players get discouraged when no matter how good they get, they still never sound anywhere close to the songs they want.
Modeling fixes that.

The true advise for beginners is not about the topic, at all.
Start with an acoustic guitar and play acoustic songs.

 

[whiteop]

I would recommend, however, not to get a 'modeling amp' rather a modeling floorboard, perhaps used, and keep the amp you have now.
This will give you two ways to change or upgrade latter.
Nic the amp, or the floorboard.
You can always play the floorboard thru headphones.

If you HAVE to go modeling amp, I'd say fender champ XD or mustang. They are both lovely.
Avoid the low end spyders.
Crap cab, crap speaker.

I have a little 15W Fender Super Champ XD which is a hybrid tube amp hat has some built in effects. Great tones for cheap ESP if you buy one used and it sounds like a "tube" amp (I have several tube amps; won't use solid state onstage unless I have to) and have tried out the Mustang series amps and while they have some good tones they don't quite sound as good as tube amps to me. They are fun though.