Flat stagger vs flat stagger?

Discussion in 'Just Pickups' started by fender4life, Jun 10, 2021.

  1. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    Heres what i'm asking. Lets look at 2 examples....some tele bridge pickups are flat and the magnet tops are flush with the flatwork. Others i have seen are also flat in that the tops of the magnets are all the same height too, but they are all raised a bit above the flatwork which also means they are longer magnets, assuming both examples are same size bobbin. Does anyone know with all else being equal, what the tonal difference would be?
     
  2. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    It depends on where the pickups are in relation to the strings.

    Are the magnet's tops (in both test guitars) the same distance from the strings? Or is the top flatwork the same distance?

    The closer the mags are to the strings, the greater the perterbation of the magnetic field and the greater the current generated by the coil. But similarly--the closer the coil is to the strings, the greater the current generated by the coil.

    I think it would be a wash, really.
     
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  3. EsquireBoy

    EsquireBoy Friend of Leo's

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    I’ve noticed it too (which tells a lot about me being a gear nerd...).

    I’m pretty sure it’s not on purpose, but that it has to do with the magnets and the bobbins that the winder has at his disposal.

    On dynasonic pickups, at the same magnet-to-string distance, you get a fatter tone with the magnet flat with the bobbin, whereas you tend to emphasize the highs when the magnets are protruding. Thusly you tend to lower the magnets and raise the whole pickup for the bridge, and do the opposite for the neck PU.

    But I do not know if that would apply to a tele pickup.
    Plus, the difference is quite subtle anyway.
     
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  4. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

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    They are called tone extensions..
     
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  5. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Strat pickups you can p ush the poles up or down to where you want... not sure about Tele bridge pickups.
     
  6. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    magnet to string distance isn't part of the question which is why i said all else being equal. That assumes the wire and DCR is the same, winding pattern, tension, AND string to magnet distance. We're talking ALL being the same except the longer rods that protrude above the flatwork.
     
  7. 985plowboy

    985plowboy Friend of Leo's

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    For sure they are now!
    Brilliant.
     
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  8. NoTeleBob

    NoTeleBob Tele-Afflicted

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    Tone towers.
     
  9. teleplayr

    teleplayr Tele-Afflicted

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    As long as the bobbins are plastic you can do that, if they're fiber bobbins you're taking a chance of wrecking the pick-up.
     
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  10. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    Flat, Flatter, Flattest?

    In the classically immortal words of Tripper (Bill Murray, "Meatballs" 1979) -

    "It ... Just ... Doesn't ... Matter".

    Well maybe not much. Maybe just a little. Just a tad. A teeny bit. Sorta. Kinda.

    Nah. :twisted:
     
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  11. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    The only thing that night make a difference is the position of the coil pack compared to the body of the rod. But I'm with @Rob DiStefano.

    Unless you displaced the rods by more than a few mm it's unlikely to make a difference.
     
  12. Rob DiStefano

    Rob DiStefano Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    There are a number of considerations for single coil design that start with a rod magnet bobbin footprint and move on to coil height and width, magnet properties (diameter, length, Gauss rate), coil wire gauge and insulation thickness, top flatware thickness, and the possibility of a bobbin cover where its thickness can matter along with its relationship to magnets (exposed or captured). Keeping mind that it's the top of a passive pickup coil that "makes the sounds" and that the sole job of magnets is to magnetize the strings, the distance between the top of the coil and the top of the rod magnets will have some bearing, but as long as those dimensions are within a particular range, it just doesn't matter.

    All of this is theory, of sorts, and what always matters most is how does it sound, what does it do to help the music I wish to create?
     
  13. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    Maybe undiscernable, but, to me flat ones are a tad fatter and middy
    while staggered a little twangier.. I prefer flats
    but that is me..
     
  14. PCollen

    PCollen Friend of Leo's

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    That is general, and generally bad, advice unless you know what you are doing and which pickups you are working with.
     
  15. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    Thats what i feel i'm hearing from mine.

    Exactly. Some like plastic bobbins it's ok. But with traditional fiber bobbin singles the wire is wrapped around the magnets and moving the pole rubs against the wire and can short or break it. Especially the hi and low E's. Move those and you are pretty much assure of pickup death. The others are a crap shoot. Sometimes can get away from it but you're risking a dead pickup.
     
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  16. arlum

    arlum Tele-Holic Platinum Supporter

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    I just go by staggered for a guitar with a vintage radius and flat for guitars with a modern radius of 12 and up.
     
  17. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    I prefer bullet-shaped magnets for increased ballistics performance downrange:

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    While on the subject of magnets, any opinions on beveled vs flat? I have heard beveled sound slightly different, brighter maybe, can't quite recall.
     
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