Fixing a low fret

[muc]

I just got a new guitar and noticed it was choking on some bends. Before filing the high spots, I tried lightly tapping the problem frets with a small hammer to seat them better — but it didn’t lower the high fret enough.

By mistake, I tapped the same fret again, but this time on the lower strings side — an area that wasn’t high — which caused that side to sit too low. To compensate, I tapped the next fret in the same area. That moved the problem one fret higher, but when I tried the same approach again, it didn’t work. Now I’ve ended up with a badly choking note because one fret is too low.

Aside from doing a full fret level, what are my options for fixing this?
Would it make sense to file down the problematic area on the next frets (mainly around the G/D strings) and then use a crowning file to reshape them?


Thanks!

 

[ChicknPickn]

This time around, maybe you should take it to a tech. What you've experienced is a mistake that's easy to make. Replacing a fret or two, having proper fall-off, etc., could be the best way to go here.

 

[PhredE]

It helps us enormously to actually see what you are describing. Pics would be very helpful.

Have you run a fret rocker between all the frets in that region of the fretboard? That would be a great starting point. To know which frets and what parts of the fretbord/fret are affected.

Also, be extra careful in tapping with an unpadded steel hammer against any fret. The steel is WAY harder than the fret material (generally) and can do some damage that may or may not be easily undone. To seat a fret as you describe (and I've had similar problems with new guitars -- especially budget imports..) is to use a 'C' type clamp, padding both jaws and gently tightening up the clamp as I carefully inspect what is going on at the fret. I know my way is atypical, but has proven to be safe and pretty effective.

The big question which looms is: 'why is the one fret higher at that location' -- was it not seated properly? Is it just a random high spot (which does happen) in that one fret, etc? It's best to understand what you're up against before attempting any changes or fixes.

 

[schmee]

I just got a new guitar and noticed it was choking on some bends. Before filing the high spots, I tried lightly tapping the problem frets with a small hammer to seat them better — but it didn’t lower the high fret enough.

By mistake, I tapped the same fret again, but this time on the lower strings side — an area that wasn’t high — which caused that side to sit too low. To compensate, I tapped the next fret in the same area. That moved the problem one fret higher, but when I tried the same approach again, it didn’t work. Now I’ve ended up with a badly choking note because one fret is too low.

Aside from doing a full fret level, what are my options for fixing this?
Would it make sense to file down the problematic area on the next frets (mainly around the G/D strings) and then use a crowning file to reshape them?


Thanks!

Replace that one fret maybe. Seems weird you can tap it too low though, all frets should be all the way down in the first place. Are the adjacent frets not seated properly?
I wouldn't level frets which are loose or not seated properly.

 

[Boreas]

Before I did anything drastic, I would try to re-swell the wood like it was a dent. Apply a little water or use a damp cloth and carefully add moderate heat - possibly a soldering iron briefly on the fret. It may be enough to make it rebound. If it works, it may be a good idea to re-flow the fret with CA.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I just got a new guitar and noticed it was choking on some bends. Before filing the high spots, I tried lightly tapping the problem frets with a small hammer to seat them better — but it didn’t lower the high fret enough.

By mistake, I tapped the same fret again, but this time on the lower strings side — an area that wasn’t high — which caused that side to sit too low. To compensate, I tapped the next fret in the same area. That moved the problem one fret higher, but when I tried the same approach again, it didn’t work. Now I’ve ended up with a badly choking note because one fret is too low.

Aside from doing a full fret level, what are my options for fixing this?
Would it make sense to file down the problematic area on the next frets (mainly around the G/D strings) and then use a crowning file to reshape them?


Thanks!

I'm getting conflicting stories here. The new guitar has some high frets and chokes out on bends. You tap the high frets and now its too low. It sounds like a very bad fret job to me.

When I install frets I make it a point to run around the crown with a very thin feeler blade, if it goes under the crown I know the fret isn't seated and I tap it down. I use glue on all my fret jobs, usually a very small drop of medium CA. Ideally with the board well prepared and the frets well seated very little leveling is required. After leveling they get recrowned.

It is not uncommon to have a hump or bump at the neck to body joint, ideally that is delt with when the fretboard itself is leveled but that area might need a little more work. Also compound radius fretboards are a little trickier to level.

ps - one more thing that should be obvious but might not be. Any time you are attempting to level frets it's important to make the neck as flat as possible. String tension off, single acting truss rods backed off, double acting rods set to their neutral position.

 

[Git Mohair]

If this a *new* guitar then why are looking at fixing fretwork on it? Give it back to the dealer and let them fix it or replace the thing.

 

[muc]

I think I need to give some more background on what’s going on.

At first, I had a high 11th fret, but only under the e, b, and g strings — d,a and e were fine (checked with a fret rocker). This caused bends on the high e (one-step bends) to choke out, which was unacceptable.

The same thing happened on the 15th fret — it made bends on lower frets of the high e choke out.

I tried tapping the 11th fret (e, b, g area) with a fret hammer (rubber head), but it didn’t help. Unfortunately, I also ended up hitting the lower strings’ area on the 11th fret, which unfortunately lowered it. Now the 11th fret is lower than the 12th on the d string, and the note on the 11th fret completely chokes there.

I then tapped the next fret in, but that didn’t solve the problem on the d string — and it introduced a new problem: now the g string chokes on the 12th fret.

At the moment, taking the guitar back to the store isn’t an option.

Any ideas? Would it make sense to file down the problematic area of the next frets (mainly around the g/d strings) and then recrown them with a crowning file?

Thanks for your time!

 

[Git Mohair]

At the moment, taking the guitar back to the store isn’t an option.

Well not now you've been at it with a hammer, TBF to the dealer. Dicey new guitar - return it. Simple as.

I know this sounds unsympathetic but if people keep putting up with crap product then it impacts all of us, including the dealer who's had no chance to put this right before you eliminated that option :/

 

[Freeman Keller]

My rule of thumb is that before I do anything I measure everything and write it all down (action, relief, next fret clearance, f/b radius at first and last frets). If frets seem to be high I try to force a thin feeler blade between the crown and the neck, if it goes in I'll try tapping the fret down (and maybe wick some thin CA into the slot). I'll then back off the truss rod and level the entire neck with the big beam and 400 grit. As I said before, I'll pay special attention to the neck to body joint (it sounds like that is where you are having problems. Each guitar is different but I want to eliminate humps at this point (the next fret clearances will guide me). I will rock groups of three frets but I try to minimize working on just three, its better to be leveling the entire f/b. I mark the tops of the frets and watch how the beam is removing the ink.

When I'm happy with level I'll recrown them and dress the ends. Most of the necks I build will be dead flat with no tension and will pull 5 to 10 thousands relief with tension so it takes very little tightening of the truss rod to bring it down to 4 or 5 or 6.

Compound radius boards are slightly tricky, you need to rock the beam back and forth on the frets following the radius, try to watch how its removing the ink.

After the frets are perfect I'll do the rest of the setup, first relief, then first fret clearance, then 12th, finally intonation. Without seeing your guitar and taking some measurements its pretty hard to make further suggestions. I always do expect a quality store to check all of this on a new guitar but I know many don't.

Good luck with yours.

Here is the long beam and a shorter one, both have 400 grit stick back sandpaper.

 

[Twangandy_]

Before refretting a good luthier can fix it with other options

 

[Boreas]

What brand/model of guitar? Fretboard material? Fretboard radius? May have just been a poor fret job or a fretboard that wasn't level/flat to begin with.

If you can't get that fret to raise back up by swelling, you can either pull & replace it OR do a full L/C/P on the frets - as well as a full evaluation of the neck and proper setup.

 

[Matthias]

How low’s your action? I have tapped some higher frets down on a new neck before (it’s not a guaranteed fix) but even then, you’ll never get the lowest action on an unlevelled fret job (as is standard on most new guitars). There are usually some high frets and some choking if you get too low.

 

[philosofriend]

Unless the fingerboard is really weak wood or you are slamming the fret so hard with a steel hammer that you are denting it, you shouldn't be able to hammer a fret lower. The fret should have originally been installed with cheeks of the fret top flush against the board. Fretwork shouldn't be that violent; fretboards should be hard wood.

If in fact you do have a low fret: you would only want to fix it by filing the high frets down level with the low one and then crowning them if the difference between the heights is very small. This may be the case if you are adjusting the guitar for extremely low action, this causes tiny fret problems to be noticed.

Filing down and recrowning frets if the low one is down more than the thickness of a piece of paper is way too much work. It is easier to replace the one low fret with a new one., then file just that one down. If you need to order a piece of fretwork, you will have to use calipers or a micrometer to measure the ones you have (unless you have a junk pile you can search through for one that looks right.)

 

[muc]

UPDATE:
I’ve managed to partially fix the issues caused by tapping with a fret hammer by lightly sanding the affected spots (11th fret at the G string and 10th fret at the D string).

Now I’m at a crossroads and would like some opinions:
My idea is to go over each choking bend, identify the specific fret causing the choke by using a fret rocker, and carefully sand that specific area of fret with the strings still on. Then, once all the problematic spots are addressed, I’d remove the strings and re-crown only the parts of the frets I’ve lowered (mainly around the G and D string areas).

Is this a good approach?

 

[Blue Bill]

FWIW, Do not try to hammer a fret down with the strings on. It will, for sure, no joke, leave a nasty dent in the fret and completely ruin it. Don't ask me how I know this...

 

[Boreas]

UPDATE:
I’ve managed to partially fix the issues caused by tapping with a fret hammer by lightly sanding the affected spots (11th fret at the G string and 10th fret at the D string).

Now I’m at a crossroads and would like some opinions:
My idea is to go over each choking bend, identify the specific fret causing the choke by using a fret rocker, and carefully sand that specific area of fret with the strings still on. Then, once all the problematic spots are addressed, I’d remove the strings and re-crown only the parts of the frets I’ve lowered (mainly around the G and D string areas).

Is this a good approach?

It is hard to advise the right path forward because we don't really know what you are working with. See my questions up on #12. These things matter to come up with the most logical path forward, to avoid casing your tail further. For instance, is this indeed a NEW guitar, or a new (to you) USED guitar?

Some close-up pix would be helpful.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Plus one to what Boreas just said. It kind of repeats what I said some posts back, what are all the other measurements? I fill out a big frickin' spreadsheet when I work on a guitar, it tells me exactly what is wrong and what needs so be done. Banging on frets on a brand new guitar is exactly the wrong approach and you've most certainly eliminated the possibility of returning it.

Put the hammer away, get out your fret rocker and your straightedges. Measure the relief, measure the action and tell us what they are. Measure the next fret clearance on every string all the way up the neck, stop and think about what the numbers are telling you. There is a point with even the best frets where you just can't goa any lower with action. Are you there?

Spend some very careful time analyzing the area around the neck to body joint - on a Fender that will be the 16th fret, might be different on other guitars (particularly shredder guitars) - is there a hump? does the extention kick up? is there fall off? Is your neck compound radius? If so have you taken that in to consideration?

Is it a screw on neck? Have you checked that the screws are tight and the neck is properly seated? Is the geometry correct?

What is the fretboard material? Is it finished? Bound? What is the fret material (nickel? SS? Evo?) What gauge strings are you using?

Have you actually tried leveling the frets? How are you doing that? File? Sanding block? Beam? Did you loosen the truss rod? Are you crowning with the correct file?

When you bought the guitar what was your understanding with the seller? Did you play it? Did it choke out when you did? Was it ordered on line? Was it Plek'd by the store selling it? Set up? To what specs?

We would like to help you but until I hear a whole lot more there isn't much I can do.

 

[muc]

@Freeman Keller Thanks for the detailed comments.
The guitar is a Sire T7 with a maple, high-gloss fretboard, 9.5" radius, and unknown fret material.
I removed and reinstalled the neck snugly, but that didn’t change anything.

Current problem:

• G string: When I press at the 11th fret, there’s enough clearance. But at the 12th fret (after I hammered the 11th down), the clearance is very low, causing a strong buzz.
• D string: When I press at the 10th fret, there’s enough clearance. But at the 11th fret (after I hammered the 10th down), the clearance is very low, causing a strong buzz.
• To reduce buzzing on these spots, I’ve had to raise the action on the G and D strings to about 2 mm, which I don’t like.

Background:
Originally, I had issues with the high E string choking on bends in 3–4 spots. After trying to fix that, I now also have these buzzing issues on the G and D strings.
What I’ve tried:
I lightly sanded the problem frets with 800 grit sandpaper, then 1200 grit. This reduced the buzzing slightly, but I still need to remove more material to fix it completely.
Questions:

1. Is it okay to file just the small sections of the frets directly under the G and D strings, then crown and polish them? Or will that make the problem worse?
2. If I file, crown, and smooth them, will bends feel rough or uneven afterwards?
3. Will I also need to spot-level the following frets on the G and D strings to keep everything even?

 

[muc]

I guess I didn't explain it too well?
Essentially my question is, given the circumstances, is spot leveling the specific high spots at the 11th fret (d string) and 12th fret (g string) that were caused by lowering the previous fret respectively a good idea or will it affect bending / intonation etc? Given that i will of course crown and polish them.