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Fixes for arthritis?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by dobrojoe, Jun 5, 2017.

  1. lewis

    lewis Poster Extraordinaire

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    This is the best advice. There is no cure for arthritis. As much as I love Cortisone, it's only temporary.
     
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  2. scrapyardblue

    scrapyardblue Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I b
    I bought a big ol' jar of pure turmeric spice, to no effect, only to read recently about the low absorption. I'm still looking myself, but this inexpensive brand has helped with joint pain. I bought it because of the pepper extract.

    Full disclosure, I've been taking Gluc/Chon (with MSM) also for many years. I ride 20 miles every other day, and do fine, but my knees sure tell me when I've been without the GC for 3-4 days. IMG_20180920_113512133.jpg
     
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  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yeah moving is essential, but I find that I have to do just the right amount to keep limber and at a manageable pain level, where too much or too little movement makes it worse.

    Because I'm in numerous pains all the time, I get sort of excited when the pain is low and the energy is high, and tend to over do things.
    Too much and the next few days I'm less functional, too little and the day is high pain/ low energy.

    Seems like before I get moving in the morning I also have less energy and more pain, then when I force myself to get going the pain lessens and the energy increases.
    It takes a concerted effort to monitor and plan my activity time in order to not be doing damage when in the low pain high energy state.

    This may not be entirely typical arthritis stuff though; I also have ADHD and can get extreme in an activity.
    But the ability to overdo in a single session leading to less function the next day is probably typical.
    Maybe a "normal arthritic" person naturally knows when to quit?
     
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  4. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    It's more important to know when not to get started. ;)
     
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  5. Utah Joe

    Utah Joe Tele-Meister

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    The herb Boswellia serrata is a traditional treatment for musculoskeletal pain. A few years back they isolated the active ingredient, 5-Loxin, and tested it against NSAIDS for the management of knee pain due to osteoarthritis. 150 mg/day was more effective than the NSAIDS.

    DMSO topical ointment also seems to help some people. Stinky, but effective.
     
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  6. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    I have that and a left thumb joint so bad I can't play an "F" or ANY barre chords. The solution is change my playing to work around it, have periodic cortisone injections for a few months' partial relief - or surgery.

    So far I'm working around it, because I'm already permanently disabled by chronic neuropathic pain and had to stop gigging. So I just play at home and jam with friends.

    But I need to do the surgery - "anchovy" surgery - on the thumb joint next year or I'll end up with nothing but dobro & steel playing.

    Anti inflammatories help, as does alternating ice and heat. And SOME cases go away, at least partially. cortisone should not be a "maintenance fix" as it damages the joints.

    But there are NO cures. Even alternative medicine practitioners and researches haven't found a single thing. You can change your diet all you want and it WON'T fix it. I've been dealing with it for almost 25 years, I see several docs and different physical therapists, half my family are medical professionals and friends are doctors, osteopaths, chiropractors, acupuncturists bla bla bla.

    Anyone who says "Well, I was cured by (fill in the blank)" simply got lucky. There are NO cures other than joint reconstruction - and it doesn't have a great success rate in finger joints.

    I feel for ya', believe me!
     
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  7. telestratosonic

    telestratosonic Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    My 66 year old brother swears by CBD cream. His arthritis is in his hands.
     
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  8. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    Not more important, of equal importance. Or alternative. As they already put out here, regarding tumeric that it needs something other to boost the uptake. MSM "hurries" and "boosts" the uptake of G&C. You can go without it, but it takes longer time, as well as you have to glutton tumeric since only 3 % is absorbed by the body.

    They use MSM on horses that runs competition and so on. The only thing is that MSM for horses and dogs are the same as for humans, but they scam us humans by charging extortionate prices. It is the same in those buckets for animals, as there are in posh packages. It's about a third of the price. And, you detect, that the horses, dogs becomes more nimble after some time. What MSM does (only) is making the cell walls more effective in turnaround of waste material, dross and discards them quicker. As such it quickens the uptake of other materials and supplements, as well as nutrients, proteins, vitamins whatever. Bodybuilders and fitness geeks uses it to "heal quicker" the muscles ruptures too, and you're sooner fit for a new training session, with getting rid of actic lacid and all those things sooner. It just hasten the process a tiny bit.

    Glucosamine = as the name implies. Glucos. Amino sugar. Can be a liability for those close to developing diabetes, as well as shellfish allergy. So chondroitin and MSM would be better off for those people. As for MSM, no allergies have been reported and no liability for diabetic persons, or in the risk zone. Now, reagarding horses:

    "The intravenous use of a combination of N-acetylglucosamine, pentosan polysulfate and sodium hyaluronate in horses with surgically-induced osteoarthritis saw improvements in xray changes to the cartilage but not histologically or in biochemical outcomes"


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucosamine

    As it is though, it's mostly about OA Osteoarthritis, and not the arthritis as told by some post early on in this thread. They're different. And neither G or C (Glucosamine, Chondroitin) exists as "sold by buckloads" to veterinars and horse owners, only MSM are. While you have to buy - in that case - G&C for humans, you can be just as well off with the sulfur that a bucket for horses/dogs are, since it will save you a lot of dough.

    OA (Osteoarthtritis) = is a type of joint disease that results from breakdown of joint cartilage and underlying bone. The most common symptoms are joint pain and stiffness. Unlike other types of arthritis, only the joints are affected.
    It's a degenerative disorder that increases with age, affects fingers, knees and hips.

    RA (Rheumatoid Arthtritis) = Autoimmune disorder that affects mainly hands and feet, unrelated to degenerative and aging, although both of these conditions increase with age. RA is soft tissue, muscles, and all things, and can be difficult for the person struck by it to determine which one of these two it is. As to confuse things up, you can actually have both, unrelated to each other. And it's hard for one to tell which is which, or if one has both conditions.

    The thing I've heard unanimously though, is that movement, excercise will mitigate (not cure) both of them. And you can do that for free, not going to the gym. You can develop increased endurance and stamina which may make you stay with playing guitar for a few hours more withouth getting pain, fatigued, or cramped up.
     
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  9. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    No one has. You still haven't figured out which one it is, or got a diagnostic from a doctor. There are 100 types (or more) of different arthritis, and you must take care of each one differently. Is it OA or RA ? OA = Osteo or Rheumatic Arthritis? Something else?

    - - - -

    Note for others: I have had this too, otherwise I wouldn't type so much about it here. I only print those things that have provided beneficial for me. The one I had was OA, in finger, wrist, hand joints. Not ever cured though, just mitigated. I know of some retirement people plus 70 now (the rocker generations starts to age) and some of them has resorted to just playing electric guitars with strong pickups, and downsized to 008 strings. That's the only tension they can press down without pain. They can play for hours though.
     
  10. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    See there, same with horses and dogs, although they won't tell you. They just won't do some things, and can't. And you'll detect it. Just 3-4 days, and the ailment shows itself again.
     
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  11. Wrong-Note Rod

    Wrong-Note Rod Poster Extraordinaire

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    I feel your pain... literally.

    I have permanent FCR tendonitis, which effects my wrist and my fretting hand thumb and the grip thereof.

    As of late, the thumb got worse and I began to have this sharp, burning pain right underneath the last thumb knuckle, on the fleshy side where it meets the guitar neck....

    I played a friends guitar with a fat boatneck and the pain was instantly relieved. I immediately bought one for my strat, an allparts super chunk thing, and the thumb no longer hurts.

    Happy Friday!

    Now when I try to play my other guitars, with much thinner necks... they feel horrible.

    Once you go fatback, you'll never go back.

    or is it you can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave?
     
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  12. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    Same here. Because of the hand positions I have to use slim necks are virtually unplayable. Example - I can't play most Taylors at all, but a vintage "V" neck is usually OK. But profiles that hit over an inch in depth, OTOH, are also very difficult to play.
     
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  13. Tim S

    Tim S Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    There's also Diclofenac cream (Voltaren) that requires a prescription in the US, (https://www.drugs.com/voltaren-gel.html) but you can buy it over the counter in Canada. Heck, in Canada you can buy it double-strength of the US Rx!
    https://www.voltaren.ca/products/voltaren-emulgel-extra-strength.html

    FWIW, Here's the MSM cream I use (Penetrex) for my osteoarthtritis --> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0026HDURA/?tag=tdpri-20
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2018
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  14. JayFreddy

    JayFreddy Poster Extraordinaire

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    I got a prescription for the diclofenac cream too, but it was expensive and it isn't really any better than capsasium cream for me.

    Seriously, the diclofenac works, but it's expensive ($70 for a 2 Oz tube!) and according to the paperwork that came with it, it has lots of potential side effects.

    The capsaicin cream works just as well for me and it's much less expensive.

    I am going to watch this thread too as I'm still looking... 51z2vMEu0zL.jpg
     
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  15. Tim S

    Tim S Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    voltaren.png
    (And that's Canadian dollars -- we get SO hosed on drug prices in the US)

    https://www.walmart.ca/search/voltaren
    or in the UK
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=voltarol&tbm=shop
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  16. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    Yes this is a huge thing, which has eluded me, and it beats me still. That one should always (anyone) get a better grip and play "faster" with any thin neck. All anatomy contradicts this and you can check this for yourself. Hence all these inventions from .Strandberg* GuitarWorks and Rick Toone luthier about their patented EndureNeck...

    Imagine getting your wrist around this one:

    [​IMG]




    I have tried these. A F full barré chord is considerably easier to grip and hold for a longer time. It's not just for shredders or Djent Metal. And you had these Torzal Twist necks from Jerome Little guitars, (or something) but that was more for people with tendonitis and carpal tunnel which is a whole different ballgame. Remember these necks will not cure or mitigate, but can be a precaution for anything to show up too early. You do have stronger grip the more fatter the neck is. Period. Or don't have to use muscles as much. However, when bending strings, it's an even wash since you're using different muscles to bend.
     
  17. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    Ok since the topic question, was :

    Q: "Fixes for Arthrithis?"
    A: "No".


    Just like this one said before:
    There are only mitigating or pain relief things. It'll hit you sooner or later anyway. There's no cure as such. You can only be pro-active and maybe DELAY the onset of arthritis (both OA and RA), and use no cost, by altering your diet, it's free, it's not something you have to buy but on the contrary avoid buying and eating/drinking. Once you caught arthritis, it's just mitigating and relieving the pain. It's too late. Not remove it, cure it, fix it, or get rid of it.

    I think pain relievers such as any prescription drug, or dietary supplements, are basically just covering up the underlying inflammation, and makes you feel like you're not having arthritis. You still have, and eventually it can have detrimental effects, in order for you "numbing it out" all of the time. Voltaren has adverse side effects, especially on your stomach. All those things, even the ones I do think works for me (which I described above as a combination of things) will just make it "slightly better, or better than it was before", but not ever never remove it as such, or fix it completely.

    The other alternate, to be some sort of faqir, and try to endure excessive pain, and cope with it, being that "trooper" kind of guy, marine soldier, who can mentally avoid feeling the pain, it will only get worse. If feeling pain in anything, stop doing it, that's the bodys signal to you to cut it out. For a while.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
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  18. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    The funny thing with all these thin necks and fat necks, is that they are the thinnest up behind the first few frets, where it is required that you use the most force of your fingers to press down, especially barré chords, like the F. Hence the dents in the frets after a decade or two. Beats me. All necks ought to be fatter where it requires more force from the fingers muscles.

    You can easily try this for yourself by wedging something else that fits around the neck for a short while, just to get the idea. Something that would stick and be hard without damaging the neck at all, some kind of "slime" or wood block, or even clay. Or stick it with those putty pad adhesives that will hold up anything for just as long as it takes for trying it out.
     
  19. beagle

    beagle Friend of Leo's

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    Pain relief doesn't work for long, when it does actually mask the pain it can lead to you doing more damage to the joint. Thanks to a well meaning doctor three years ago prescribing naproxen, to which I had a very bad reaction, my stomach is now much more worrying in the long term than the arthritis. My latest GP says that all the drugs in the world won't help when in medical terms (his very words) "your joints are knackered, worn out fubar".
     
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  20. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    FWIW, I've slowly transgressed (!?) into playing more bass guitar now, than any acoustic guitar, since I find it a major chore too playing and holding barré chords all of the time, when strumming along. Even electric guitar such as Telecaster have been taking a back-seat only, but when I play, it's mostly licks and solos, not full chords. Bass is basically (ha!) one note at a time, and I can do most things with thumbs over neck too.

    Mind you, this conversion is soley due to beginning arthritis. Or thanks to, depending on which side you stand. And no, I don't own a Telecaster bass. But bass is like 80-90 percent now, and guitar the rest.

    - - - - - - -

    Side note:

    Long time observation on others, and this has dawned to me slowly. Whenever seeing someone complaining about severe a) arthritis in fingers but pretty not somewhere else b) tendoinitis, carpal tunnel syndrome, and watch their fingering on guitar, I have slowly come to the conclusion that the more self-taught, and DIY kind of fingering you had on you guitar technique, the more arthritis turned up. Sooner and more severe.

    Whenever seeing on that was being taught "the right way" whenever around pre-teens years has not developed bad playing habits when playing guitar, bass or even piano. In order to rush things, precocious, and be able to pull this or that lick, riff, chord off, they don't seem to bother at an early age, but going just at great lengths to just being able to pull it off, and thus, later, way later down the road, that bad habit will bite you in the butt. It'll bite you back big time. This included classical guitarists with one finger per fret, which I've not seen THAT PRONE to arhtritis at all, although it requires less pressing force by fingers on nylon strings.

    Whenever I played, and jammed with friends, even drummers, after like 2-3 hours they sort of cramps up, get lactic acid, and are tense all of the time when playing. Both rehearsal space, and at gigs. When they wanted to quit (not even taking a break) it was all earlier than I wanted to. I could/can go on and on, without getting fatigued or lactic acid showing up. These days I occasionally jam with 2 guys just over 30 that are very passionate about music, and they prefer to play with me, I am 58, because they've never ever seen one with that same anti-fatigue and stamina. Regardless of age. I can keep up with them without straining everything. This is because I've learned the proper way early on, not to push up my shoulders when playing or getting in a tense mode all of the time. BTW Lactic acid, in any other situation, like sports, will have quicker onset of arthritis if you don't get rid of it afterwards by massage, or ... sauna, or something like that.

    But I digress, but I think that "proper" schooling and ergonomic fingering from an early age on, will keep your stamina up, and feel less fatigued in the long run. Also, I've detected that those who did those boring woodshedding homework back in the day, have lesser problems in learning new songs, or copying someone elses playing style. They'll climb into the "shoes" or fills the shoes faster. Without tension, strain, or fatigue. I e learning tricky, advanced things faster, and pull it off with less effort.
     
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