First Time Neck Shimmer

[Bass Butcher]

The shim should be at one end or the other, not with a gap either side. You just run your screws through it with paper or card stock shims or line it up and poke a hole through prior to re-installing the neck. A full shim would be better, a sturdier neck/body joint and better sustain transference between the neck and body but there is more to that than just getting full coverage, you might have to sand your shim to the desired angle, which involves some trial and error, remounting the neck a few times at least until you get it where you want it and starting all over if you go too far. The partial shim compromise is to test seat it until you get your shim thickness correct, take it apart again and use wood filler to fill the void between the shim and lumber.
I have seen wood filler used even on factory neck joints, it usually turns back into a powder after a decade or two though.
If you are close the pressure from seating the neck with the screws will level it out and squeeze out any excess.
As with any screw(s) you remove from a guitar you should also paint a bit of the threads with white or carpenter's glue before re-installing the screw(s). That helps avoid over tightening/stripping threads in the wood, fills any voids cause by shrinkage, etc. and locks the screw in place. Neck screws are the screws that benefit from that the most. That technique will also repair blown out threads, although it is better to fill badly blown out screw holes with wood and glue and re-
drill the hole once the glue has time to set.

 

[msalama]

My Strat tilt-o-neck works just fine

As do my 70's Customs and Deluxes too, they're all rock solid and stable with no warpage whatsoever.

 

[Monoprice99]

...you might have to sand your shim to the desired angle, which involves some trial and error, remounting the neck a few times at least until you get it where you want it and starting all over if you go too far.

That's what I found was the biggest issue. I used a level to ensure I was on a flat counter top. I then used a sanding disc for a rotary sander (wet the back of the sandpaper so it would adhere to the countertop and applied even pressure to the shim to sand it smooth by moving the shim material rather than the sand paper for being stationary. And then was able to isolate where I wanted the angle to start on an edge and sand the plastic there. This fits the neck pocket for the bottom of the heel of the neck before drilling for the 4 bolt screws. It's relatively smooth, but I also wanted some traction to keep the shim and neck to stay together if somehow the bolts ever loosen enough for movement. If there are light scratches, that's the extent of any gaps. In that regard, I chose to perceive the shim as a thicker neck heel rather than shallower depth for the neck pocket. That perspective allows the neck to still have any neck pocket adjustment the neck & body always had laterally, also front to rear in the neck pocket.

 

[rockinstephen]

It looks/sounds like you did the right thing. I've never tried one of those tapered shims but that would probably be the best way to go. I like to use guitar picks taped to the back of the neck. That has always worked for me. Years ago, many Fenders had a "micro tilt" adjustment where you could adjust the neck through the neckplate. Seems like a good idea. I wonder whatever happened to that?

 

[telemnemonics]

I do not want to spend the energy singling out every post that follows current trendy myths about neck shims, air gaps, coupling, sustain, and in some cases shimming at the headstock end resulting in Tele saddles so low the strings are barely above the sides of the bridge plate plus all height screws protrude.
Plus it is not any individuals fault that they got into guitars during the misinformation age when the least informed post the most gear tech info.
So while some may take offense at my suggestion that they have been misled by marketing lies and youtube influencers, please accept that I do not blame any individual who looked for info on the net and concluded that repeated fears of the air gap prove that the air gap will rob them, and that shims are something to worry about.

But this discussion is so full of repeated myths that are not grounded in reality, with the origins of those myths being a mix of marketing by sellers of tapared shims, and new player hobby modders sitting at computers thinking about sustain and worrying about the air gaps they read robbed sustain, while listening to records made with Fender guitars that are all wrong according to trendy gear chat experts.

 

[viking]

I have nothing against shims , but see no reason to buy anything special. I just use hard material.
BTW , the 3 bolt "tilt" design was one of Leos final designs when he worked as a consultant at CBS Fender.
I will say , though , I have never seen a factory shim at the headstock end of the pocket , nor have I never needed to put one in.

 

[martinlb]

I'm no Tele expert but a question that came to mind for me is, wouldn't having something like cardboard between the neck and the body have a negative effect on sustain?

 

[NoTeleBob]

I'm no Tele expert but a question that came to mind for me is, wouldn't having something like cardboard between the neck and the body have a negative effect on sustain?

Some folks think that if you don't have full neck to body contact that you don't get proper sound transfer to the body. So, vibration transfer is decreased, and then resonance is decreased, and you get less sustain.

I actually like the theory intuitively, but it doesn't prove out in practice. With a 1/4" wide shim at one end or the other of the neck you still can get fabulous resonance.

 

[telemnemonics]

I'm no Tele expert but a question that came to mind for me is, wouldn't having something like cardboard between the neck and the body have a negative effect on sustain?

Not the kind of cardboard Amazon ships stuff in, really "card stock" not cardboard.
Try putting a piece of quality card stock loosely in a vice, measure the gap, then tighten.
It really does not compress, and any minute compression that happens stays at the dimension the neck is tightened to.

A bigger problem with Fender style materials compressing is the body wood around the neck plate.
Very commonly the neck plate crushes into the body, compressing the solid wood. Even hard body woods like ash, compress under the bolt on pressure.

As for negative effect on sustain, shims were in most Strats used on all the classic album recordings.
Have you noticed that vintage Strats lacked sustain or did not sound good?

This is the nutty condition of gear chat where hobbyists chatting keep repeating buzzwords and create mythologies which if true, basically claim that all the classic Rock and Blues was made with guitars these hobby modder blogger shoppers claim are inferior guitars due to not having Stew Mac tapered shims.
The concepts of resonance being better and air gaps being bad is all hobby gear chat based.
None of it is consistent with the history of Fender guitars, and meanwhile the vintage Fenders sell for huge money as if THEY were the better guitars, despite trendy myths saying everybody was making and using guitars wrong before the 21st Century internet corrected them.

 

[bobio]

I would never put anything but a full contact shim in any of my guitars.

The Perils of Bad Neck Shims — Haze Guitars

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Neck-Shimming and Ski Jumps: The Latest Research — Haze Guitars

While not completely irrefutable yet, I find the correlation of poor shimming practice and ski jump deformations in instrument necks to be compelling. I strongly recommend using a full-pocket (wedge-shaped) shim if you ever need to shim your bolt-on guitar or bass. Please read my reasoning…

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Neck shimming. Long term issues?

My CVC needed a neck shim. I just couldn't dial out a zing around the 10th-13th frets. Relief is fine, but the saddles resembled the NASA chase cameras for shuttle launches!. I've just shimmed it near the headstock end with a 1mm thick by 5mm wide strip of fairly soft wood, running across the...

www.tdpri.com

 

[SteveK2112]

Very, very common for bolt on necks to be shimmed. I've used matchbook covers, (that's how old I am), business cards, pieces cut from a gallon milk jug, etc. Nowadays, I'd probably bite the financial bullet and get the wooden ones from StewMac, just seems like a better idea to have more contact between neck heel and guitar body.

It's not actually "VERY VERY COMMON"

What a huge lie.

 

[Sea Devil]

A huge lie?! I've never seen a 60s Jaguar or Jazzmaster without a factory shim, and the majority of the Teles and Strats from that era that I've seen have 'em, too. They're red, with diagonally cut corners, and nowhere near full neck pocket shims -- only about a half inch long. What's odd is that they're often not needed and can be removed with no negative consequences.

 

[birdawesome]

Stewmac full neck pocket shims are best. No air pocket and quality and easy product to work with

 

[Hallski]

I figured this would be a sensitive topic! Read through the posts from the last few days, and I think everyone's opinions are valid! I seems like the shim I'm using now is working just fine, and the guitar is still very resonant and sustains well, I dont notice any difference at all in that area due to the air gap of the shim. Honestly, I've never had a guitar sound this resonant unplugged. I do have a .25 from StewMac coming today to try that out. Of course it's more than it should be, but am I gonna make a tapered shim at a .25 degree angle thats consistent? Of course not, I'll spend the few bucks!

A few comments address that I should not have to shim if I've done everything right. But, these are guitars; its simply wire and wood. As consistent as the most consistent company is, there will likely be personal tweaks that are made, so I dont think anyone is right or wrong for shimming a neck. Obviously I'm not the first to do it, so I have no concern whether I should or shouldn't need to shim. The guitar feels and plays better with the shim, and the saddles sit much lower for my liking.

I put it at that end (again, it's making contact with the back of the pocket, just not on the sides of the screws so the air gap looks much more significant) because the saddles were to high. Is that where it will always be? Dont know, still experimenting and learning. My neck relief is at .006, fretting at the 12th and measuring at the 6th. Pretty straight. Maybe there should be more relief to get the strings at the higher frets closer to the board without a shim? I dont know, I'm certainly no luthier, so I usually just wing it and learn. Case in point, my first neck shim and this thread.

I will likely try the tapered shim in both direction when it comes in. I am curious about what does what, and the easy and best way to learn to is just try it. If I put it in "the right way" at the bridge side and it works well, great! If not, I'll flip it, also great! Seems like there are positive experiences using shims in both directions.

I appreciate everyone weighing in!

 

[Gris]

I’ve always used playing cards (and there is voodoo re which card to use lol). I cut one half the size of the pocket and another half that size. You might just need one or you might need both. If both, i ‘stair-step’ them.

 

[CCK1]

It's not actually "VERY VERY COMMON"

What a huge lie.

I certainly don’t have any hard numbers to back me up, just 40+ years of playing and setting up bolt on neck guitars, mostly Fenders. I would estimate that probably 50%, maybe more have shims in the neck pocket.

 

[telemnemonics]

It's not actually "VERY VERY COMMON"

What a huge lie.

Seriously, what info from what source has you accusing half the reporters of history that they are lying?

You know that Leo era Fender guitars commonly shipped factory assembled with neck shims in place? Maybe you spent years working as a guitar tech and no pre CBS or other era Fender you worked had a shim?

You know that Leo came up with the micro tilt beck mount for CBS during his consultant years after selling Fender to CBS?

You know Leo put micro tilt on his G&L guitars right from the start?

If shims were and are not "very very common", how did Fender neck angles get set before the micro tilt?
Or what was and is the micro tilt for if no neck angle setting was required?

 

[Boreas]

Perhaps they were common with vintage Fenders, but are current Fenders commonly equipped with them?? None of my relatively "recent" Squiers or Fenders came with shims from the factory. The oldest Fender I have is a 74, and it didn't have one - but I bought it used, so don't really know what was stuffed in there at the factory. In summation, "very, very, common" needs to clarified somewhat. Perhaps Venn diagrams would help...

 

[Hallski]

Ok, update and some pics (including heel and neck pocket this time, didnt add those initially). I received my .25 degree shim from StewMac. It didn't line up with the holes when I reversed it, and I ended up having to cut it to size on the thickest end and sand it down, which I'm sure it still fine. Maybe I was not thinking right, but thats how it seemed I had to to it to make it fit. But, the .25 degree thick side was still as thick it started at least. It still tapers down to its zero angle. Also noticed just how similar it was to my "cereal box" shim. Same thickness before the taper started, and similarly dense. I can't imagine the cereal box shim is of any less value, but, its in and it has the full contact nature that was talked about positively here.

I had set the guitar to the cereal box shim, so I have to make some adjustments to the setup to accommodate the new specs of the StewMac shim. So I made some neck adjustments (still at .006 at the 12th, pretty flat) and adjusted the action (capo at 1st to remove the nut, and set to the least amount of acceptable buzz; Low E is just above 4/64 and the High E is the same, just above 4/64. Radius set with radius gauge). Also had to play with the pickups a bit, because I was getting nice sustain and resonance unplugged but not plugged in, so I think I've dialed that it decently. Setup's stress me out more than they should

I have it playing pretty well. I'm not going to mess with it anymore right now, I have a Christmas service I'm playing Saturday with rehearsals starting Thursday, so I just wanted to be as well set up as possible. I think I am. Still plays better in my opinion than it did without the shim, but I dont see/hear a noticeable difference (besides visually) from the cereal box shim that was in there, for what it's worth to anyone.

Here are the pics of the neck and heel, and the seated neck with the shim in it. Also, a side view of the neck for angle reference. Not sure if thats right or wrong . SIDE NOTE: How is my neck angle? If you can tell from the picture, how does it look? Should the strings be the same height off the frets going all the way up the board? Or should is decrease as it gets closer to the nut, like mine sort of is? My main goal here was to lower my saddles, they were crazy high to get desired action without buzzing and nearly bottomed out. Much better now, but if there's anything else I should be doing, feel free to make suggestions!

Appreciate all the help and advice here.

 

[Intubator]

I would start a separate thread for your issue, otherwise confusion abounds within the original thread.

That pocket is pretty ugly IMO. I like to see wood on wood contact. It is likely the excess and uneven finish on the floor of that pocket is interfering with proper fit and angle.

I agree with Boreas. The opposite side your shimming area has a heavier raised build up of poly likely causing/contributing to the issue. I'd flatten out the finish in that entire neck pocket with a wide flat file just to the wood or to the point you would have a flat and even surface for maximum contact and then re assess the situation. I suppose this was covered earlier in the thread too as I continue to read through.