First Time Neck Shimmer

[Hallski]

New the world of bolt ons, mostly everything I've played has been set neck, so thats what I'm used to working on. But, I've been fighting a few things on my Road Worn for a while, and I think have fixed one of them by shimming the neck. The bridge saddles were WAY up, the screws were almost bottomed out in the barrel (like, screwed all the way down) and my intonation screws were sticking through the strings. I knew something was up.

Been reading through TDPRI about shimming, and I found that I should shim the headstock side of the neck pocket a bit to help with the angle, and WOW what a difference it's made. I was able to lower my saddles MUCH lower and get my action to more playable spot for my liking. So I'm glad for that.

My question isn't so much, do you like neck shims. Rather, how did I do? Is everything looking right? Using what I saw online (famous last words!), and what I had around, I cut a shim out of the top of a cereal box, and cut it so it would avoid the mounting holes. There is a slight gap now on the top of the pocket, of course. Screws are as tight as I can get them, neck isn't moving even if pulled on. Heel seems to be seated well in the pocket at the bridge side (see pictures)

But is that OK? Or should I grab one of those StewMac tapered shims? If so, what angle? Likely the 5 degree from what I've read.

Just curious of your thoughts, I've never done this before, and while it seems to have helped my issues, I don't want to create any further issues down the road.

(SIDE NOTE: When I pulled the neck, the finish and clear coat was REALLY stuck on the neck at the pocket. Seems to have cracked a little bit at the neck, I'm sure its only cosmetic, and it will live under the pickguard)

 

[BorderRadio]

Seems fine, but one thing: you can see the air gap at the end. I have one Tele ‘reverse’ shimmed like yours, I can see the manila folder I cut up at the end of the neck-body seam. I’d move it down toward the headstock, which will slightly raise the saddles again, but not as much as before. You might have to stack two cereal box cutouts.

Coming from the Jazzmaster world, shims are typical. I use 1 degree full pocket shims for most flat-neck pocket offsets. I’m fairly confident you don’t need 5 degrees, that’s Bigsby B16 territory. Maybe you meant 0.5 degrees? If you don’t like the gap, get the full pocket shim and start with two 0.25 degree shims. Stack them if they don’t provide enough to tilt to get the saddle where you want them. One the other hand, if you have the means, measure the air gap you have now to get you in the ball park for the right ‘end’ shim thickness.

 

[CCK1]

Very, very common for bolt on necks to be shimmed. I've used matchbook covers, (that's how old I am), business cards, pieces cut from a gallon milk jug, etc. Nowadays, I'd probably bite the financial bullet and get the wooden ones from StewMac, just seems like a better idea to have more contact between neck heel and guitar body.

 

[effzee]

I've started googling around about neck shimming, I'd like to lower the action on one if my guitars, not a Tele but that doesn't matter.

So this thread is well timed for me

Your cereal box top is flat, I assume. So the neck is just raised a bit but the angle hasn't changed ? Or is it just a small piece only at the front of the pocket? I mean the neck end.

That's interesting to me and I think I might just try something like this. Maybe even just loosen the bolts enough to slide a spacer into the gap and see if that gets me close to where I want to go.

Edit: well lookie lookie

And the neck had to come off for access. And I'm thinking I have to actually remove this shim to get the effect I'm looking for

 

[Hallski]

Seems fine, but one thing: you can see the air gap at the end. I have one Tele ‘reverse’ shimmed like yours, I can see the manila folder I cut up at the end of the neck-body seam. I’d move it down toward the headstock, which will slightly raise the saddles again, but not as much as before. You might have to stack two cereal box cutouts.

Coming from the Jazzmaster world, shims are typical. I use 1 degree full pocket shims for most flat-neck pocket offsets. I’m fairly confident you don’t need 5 degrees, that’s Bigsby B16 territory. Maybe you meant 0.5 degrees? If you don’t like the gap, get the full pocket shim and start with two 0.25 degree shims. Stack them if they don’t provide enough to tilt to get the saddle where you want them. One the other hand, if you have the means, measure the air gap you have now to get you in the ball park for the right ‘end’ shim thickness.

Yes, I definitely meant .5!

Was thinking the same thing about the air gap, and that seems like the one issue with doing it like this and allowing less contact between the wood. What isn't really pictured, is where the cereal box shim sits between the screws. Its hard to explain, and I dont have a picture of it. But, the shim stops at about the middle of the pocket, and I cut in and up to avoid the screws. So there is contact in the upper middle of the pocket between the screws, just not on the outsides of the screws. I can probably make another cereal box shim to close that air gap, but I think I like the idea of the tapered shim from StewMac

 

[Hallski]

Very, very common for bolt on necks to be shimmed. I've used matchbook covers, (that's how old I am), business cards, pieces cut from a gallon milk jug, etc. Nowadays, I'd probably bite the financial bullet and get the wooden ones from StewMac, just seems like a better idea to have more contact between neck heel and guitar body.

For sure, the two schools of thought seem to be "Leo used whatever!" and "More contact with the body is the way". I would probably lean more towards the tapered shim that StewMac sells, but I wanted to see if the shim would fix my issues, which it's looking like it has in some capacity.

 

[Cyberi4n]

There's a lot of talk about "full neck pocket contact" and the transference of resonance etc. I dont know how much of that is truth or whether its just an old wives tale. Shimming in this way seems like an acceptable way of doing it, even from the factory. I've used the stewmac shims in the past, and found them great. they DO raise the neck though, as they're full pocket. I'd buy a 0.25 AND a 0.5 and experiment, I suspect you'll likely only need a 0.25. I forward-shimmed the neck on my tele in the profile pic, with no adverse tonal impact, for precisely the reasons you've done yours. In the end though I found that by setting my relief virtually flat (0.0035") I was able to do without the shim in the end.

 

[Hallski]

I've started googling around about neck shimming, I'd like to lower the action on one if my guitars, not a Tele but that doesn't matter.

So this thread is well timed for me

Your cereal box top is flat, I assume. So the neck is just raised a bit but the angle hasn't changed ? Or is it just a small piece only at the front of the pocket? I mean the neck end.

That's interesting to me and I think I might just try something like this. Maybe even just loosen three bolts enough to slide a spacer into the gap and see if that gets me close to where I want to go.

Yes, its flat and cut to size. My first attempt, I thought he whole neck had to come up, so the shim was the size of the whole pocket, with no taper. It didnt really help, so I think all that did was make the neck higher. Instead, after some more reading, to fix the high bridge saddles and help with action, I have to correctly level the neck angle and shim up the headstock side. So, my shim is only in the half the pocket on the headstock side to bump up the headstock essentially, which allowed me to get lower action on the higher frets with little to know buzzing, using about the same string action height at the 12th fret (5/64 on the low E and a little less than that on the high E). Those were the same heights I had before I shimmed the neck, but they feel lower for some reason, not sure how that makes sense but its working!

 

[Hallski]

There's a lot of talk about "full neck pocket contact" and the transference of resonance etc. I dont know how much of that is truth or whether its just an old wives tale. Shimming in this way seems like an acceptable way of doing it, even from the factory. I've used the stewmac shims in the past, and found them great. they DO raise the neck though, as they're full pocket. I'd buy a 0.25 AND a 0.5 and experiment, I suspect you'll likely only need a 0.25. I forward-shimmed the neck on my tele in the profile pic, with no adverse tonal impact, for precisely the reasons you've done yours. In the end though I found that by setting my relief virtually flat (0.0035") I was able to do without the shim in the end.

Seems to be like everything else, multiple correct ways of solving the same problem!

I will likely keep this shimmed this way for now (I am using it next week for some Christmas services so I wanted to get it ready to rock, this is working). Looks like the StewMac ones are now tapered, so they should taper down to nearly zero on the side of the pocket you arent shimming. I'll probably grab the .5, or .25's at some point to try.

 

[Boreas]

Agree with above comments. If you are looking to just adjust the saddles down some, I would probably start with 0.25 degree. Many people don't like the saddles too low because it brings the strings so close to the body. I use the StewMac shims because I like full contact with no gaps to be seen.

Before you start, make sure your neck pocket an neck are clean of excess finish. Sometimes gobs of finish interfere with a proper fit in the pocket. Check the corners as well - especially if (without shim) any gaps are created when dry fitting. Just a little schmutz at the pickup side of the pocket can leave the neck pointing upward, which is what you have. You may find on close inspection all you need to change the angle is some judicious scraping/sanding of the neck or pocket. The front of the pocket looks really tight and may be interfering with a proper fit. You want to shoot for wood-on-wood contact and sanding/filing back any excess finish or areas where the pocket may be interfering with a good fit. A good neck should be fairly snug, but not tight, which can crack and cause improper seating.

Pix of the heel and pocket are always encouraged!

 

[Hallski]

Agree with above comments. If you are looking to just adjust the saddles down some, I would probably start with 0.25 degree. Many people don't like the saddles too low because it brings the strings so close to the body. I use the StewMac shims because I like full contact with no gaps to be seen.

Before you start, make sure your neck pocket an neck are clean of excess finish. Sometimes gobs of finish interfere with a proper fit in the pocket. Check the corners as well - especially if (without shim) any gaps are created when dry fitting. Just a little schmutz at the pickup side of the pocket can leave the neck pointing upward, which is what you have. You may find on close inspection all you need to change the angle is some judicious scraping/sanding of the neck or pocket.

Pix of the heel and pocket are always encouraged!

Thanks! The high E saddle is definitely WAY low, which before it was not. Doesn't seem to be affecting anything negatively to my ear/fingers, but maybe the .25 is the best starting point, and I dont need that much help to level the neck angle.

Will definitely check the neck pocket and and heel! Pictures will be added as well

 

[TokyoPortrait]

Hi.

Yes, two schools of thought. Four maybe? Full pocket vs. partial & in both cases (or, on top of that), wood vs. not wood.

Regardless of who is right, there’s only one answer that will fulfil the function of ‘cannot be wrong’ - full pocket wooden shims.

I’ve only done it once. I used a StewMac shim because I could. It seemed easier & faster. Worked just fine. I was surprised how much difference just 0.5 made.

Pax/
Dean

 

[Boreas]

Thanks! The high E saddle is definitely WAY low, which before it was not. Doesn't seem to be affecting anything negatively to my ear/fingers, but maybe the .25 is the best starting point, and I dont need that much help to level the neck angle.

Will definitely check the neck pocket and and heel! Pictures will be added as well

I would lightly file/sand the edges of the finish around the pocket to keep it from contacting the neck. It will likely continue to chip unless you chamfer it a little.

 

[Hallski]

Hi.

Yes, two schools of thought. Four maybe? Full pocket vs. partial & in both cases (or, on top of that), wood vs. not wood.

Regardless of who is right, there’s only one answer that will fulfil the function of ‘cannot be wrong’ - full pocket wooden shims.

I’ve only done it once. I used a StewMac shim because I could. It seemed easier & faster. Worked just fine. I was surprised how much difference just 0.5 made.

Pax/
Dean

Right, and I think this will be something that I leave there for best results, so I've just ordered two of the .25 shims from StewMac. I should do it right if I am going to do it!

 

[Hallski]

I would lightly file/sand the edges of the finish around the pocket to keep it from contacting the neck. It will likely continue to chip unless you chamfer it a little.

View attachment 1062311

Was thinking about that, and this was VERY tightly set in place, so would be a good idea to knock a little of that back.

 

[effzee]

Yes, its flat and cut to size. My first attempt, I thought he whole neck had to come up, so the shim was the size of the whole pocket, with no taper. It didnt really help, so I think all that did was make the neck higher. Instead, after some more reading, to fix the high bridge saddles and help with action, I have to correctly level the neck angle and shim up the headstock side. So, my shim is only in the half the pocket on the headstock side to bump up the headstock essentially, which allowed me to get lower action on the higher frets with little to know buzzing, using about the same string action height at the 12th fret (5/64 on the low E and a little less than that on the high E). Those were the same heights I had before I shimmed the neck, but they feel lower for some reason, not sure how that makes sense but its working!

I was having the opposite issue. My bridge was all the way down, the action was acceptable and playable, but I wanted to try lowering it more, and couldn't. So I took off the neck, found the narrow shim at the front end, moved it to the back, which dropped the action to almost bottomed out, and now I've raised the bridge to get the action where I want it. Seems ok, but I don't have time now for further diddling around.

This is the bridge, one solid piece of machined steel and two thumb wheels for adjusting it

 

[Engine Swap]

I thought this was going to be about some new kind to tone phenomenon.

EX: My Tele has plenty of “neck shimmer” when I plug into a Deluxe Reverb

 

[Boreas]

I've started googling around about neck shimming, I'd like to lower the action on one if my guitars, not a Tele but that doesn't matter.

So this thread is well timed for me

Your cereal box top is flat, I assume. So the neck is just raised a bit but the angle hasn't changed ? Or is it just a small piece only at the front of the pocket? I mean the neck end.

That's interesting to me and I think I might just try something like this. Maybe even just loosen the bolts enough to slide a spacer into the gap and see if that gets me close to where I want to go.

Edit: well lookie lookie

View attachment 1062309

And the neck had to come off for access. And I'm thinking I have to actually remove this shim to get the effect I'm looking for

I would start a separate thread for your issue, otherwise confusion abounds within the original thread.

That pocket is pretty ugly IMO. I like to see wood on wood contact. It is likely the excess and uneven finish on the floor of that pocket is interfering with proper fit and angle.

 

[Boreas]

I thought this was going to be about some new kind to tone phenomenon.

EX: My Tele has plenty of “neck shimmer” when I plug into a Deluxe Reverb

Or, "I just dropped my Tele - now I have "neck shimmer"...

 

[Engine Swap]

Or, "I just dropped my Tele - now I have "neck shimmer"...

Exactly!