1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

First gig in a few years: volume woes

Discussion in 'Glowing Bottle Tube Amp Forum' started by Hatfield92, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    940
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Location:
    Largo, Florida, USA
    Had a surprisingly decent first outing last night with my classic rock four piece. Smaller venue, crowd of somewhere around 80. We were well received.

    It was my first chance to try out my ‘79 DR in a real world setting, and I’m really frustrated. The darn thing is just too loud for the types of gigs I’m going to be playing in the near future.

    I’m DYING to at least APPROACH the sweet spot, but I was basically stuck on 1 on the volume. And even then, I had to nudge my volume pedal down a bit most of the night.

    My initial reaction is I’ve got to replace that super efficient Hempdog speaker. It sounds great, but I don’t know how often (if ever) I’ll be able to really achieve any tube overdrive in my gigs. So it’s kind of a waste.

    I’m strongly considering an Eminence Maverick. When the dial on the back of the speaker is all the way up, it’s pretty much as efficient (according to specs) as the Hempdog, should I ever need that. But when it’s cranked down, its efficiency is about 91 dB.

    I’m shooting for latter day Keith Richards type breakup at small gig volumes. Last night, I managed to muddle through with my generic TS-style pedal dialed in kinda SRV style.

    So guys, if I put a Maverick in the DR, will I be able to at least get in the ballpark of the amp’s sweet spot at modern-day small club levels?

    One final note: I DO have a 6g2 clone being built. I should be getting that by the end of July. It IS going to have a Maverick. Should I just leave the DR as-is? It does have great clean tone, and it can be a great amp for my other band, which does funk/disco. The 6g2 is, in theory, the answer to my musical prayers.

    Just looking for some insight from some folks who play the same type of music in similar settings with similar equipment. Tone is a HUGE deal for me. I play exponentially better when I’m dialed in, and I’m struggling to dial it in, due to the volume thing.
     
    Greggorios likes this.
  2. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    12,586
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    A 6G2 Princeton should be a lot better for your gigs it sounds like. I gig with a DR most of the time. It is on <3 on the volume and it can definitely be too loud with a good speaker and if you are using an Overdrive that adds volume. My DR sounds crappy and pretty much goes off below 2. The Princeton can be loud too so don't go too efficient on the speaker! But you need the speaker whose tone pleases you.
    But the bottom line is... in clubs now days I have to use an OD of some sort to control volume, by setting the OD low. My experience is when you choke an amp down somehow, it loses tone. SO not sure about a Maverick, I haven't tried one.
    Volume pedals kill tone to my ears but if you are happy with one just use it!
     
  3. MuddyWolf

    MuddyWolf Tele-Meister

    Age:
    57
    Posts:
    396
    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Location:
    Paradise, Ca
    Speaker change wont help much. Use like a mooer hustle drive with the drive up and level very low and set the amp volume on like 3. No it not the awesome tone of the amp but quieter. But it does rescue the DR from sitting in the closet. I gigged mine that way for awhile . Then i got a monoprice 15w for the convenience of a master vol. Different thread there.
     
    Greggorios, ce24, Keefsdad and 2 others like this.
  4. cyclopean

    cyclopean Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,139
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Location:
    innsmouth, MA
    how quiet does this gig have to be? i'm playing a 135 watt 4x10 on three or four almost every time we play out.
     
  5. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    940
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Location:
    Largo, Florida, USA
    It’s definitely quieter than I expected, but it’s not like it doesn’t sound like a live band. I’d say it’s pretty comparable to the volume we’ve been rehearsing at. It’s hard for me to say, because I haven’t been rehearsing with the DR.

    Keep in mind all the variables. Style of music. Size of venue. And, like I discussed in the OP, speaker efficiency. This DR is LOUD.
     
  6. nojazzhere

    nojazzhere Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    68
    Posts:
    12,984
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2017
    Location:
    Foat Wuth, Texas
    WOW!.....yeah, I think I heard you all the way down here in Texas the other night! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  7. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,040
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Location:
    UK
    I believe you can’t do that stuff for tube tone at a range of volumes and venues without a decent master volume amp... Cheap,but great is a Marshall DSL40CR which has two master volumes and a half power switch. I am using one of those for a whole host of classic rock, funk, etc. Most gigs it’s running the stage sound too, so at about 50% on volume at half power most gigs.

    Has a great crunch channel that sounds superb at any volume. The sweetness is in the preamp design.

    My main, now semi-retired, rig was Mesa Boogie with 15/75w switching and another great master volume. Something like the new MK5:25 or MK5:35 (which is better featured for live use) is a high end option that would deliver the goods anywhere.

    The old ‘one tone wonder’ fenders are just too limiting imho. You want a very wide sweet range, not a narrow spot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  8. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,844
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Location:
    Gilbert, AZ (PHX)
    If you are gonna play a lot of gigs in different places (resturants, small bars etc) you need to forget about that legendary "sweet spot amp overdrive" and get an overdrive pedal. Ya just can't play that loud everywhere. A cranked Champ is usually too loud.
     
    Evil Funk, Greggorios, jwp2 and 17 others like this.
  9. 8barlouie

    8barlouie Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    4,552
    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Location:
    Southeast Massachusetts
    Give the Maverick a try. I’m a happy customer. Cranked down, 8db makes more difference than you think. With my DRRI turned to the sweet spot (which for me is about 4), and the Maverick turned all the way down, the volume is just right for a club gig. Also, the attenuation warms the tone a bit, which on a DRRI is really just fine.
     
    Greggorios, brbadg, PigBoy and 3 others like this.
  10. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,281
    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Location:
    Winchester, VA
    The fact of the matter is that in many of today's gigging environments, the old "blast the paint off the walls" guitar amps are no longer suitable. Even a low-wattage tube amp can border on being too much. I still see loud half-stacks, but only in night clubs with metal/hard rock bands, where the room is extremely loud and people want that.

    As mentioned above, a speaker change won't help much at all. Get an overdrive pedal and use that to get your tone, keeping the amp volume down. Don't spend $$$ on a different amp or speaker; use what you have and add an overdrive pedal.

    I used to gig small bars with a Marshall half-stack, but I used the master volume. I had to.
     
  11. Teleterr

    Teleterr Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,683
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    Lewes De.
    I use a 32 db preamp for great all tube distortion tones at low volume. I think a 20 db pre will get you close, and there are now 25 db ones because of Fenders built in preamps. Some of the ART hybred tube preamps go to 40 db and over.
     
  12. PastorJay

    PastorJay Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,687
    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2014
    Location:
    California
    smaller amp; less efficient speaker (maybe least effective option); and/or dirt pedal that gives you the tone you want without volume boost.

    AS much as I love TS style pedals, they're probably not the right tool for the job.

    There are several pedals that do Fender style breakup. That and a smaller amp will likely get you there.

    A champ or a princeton, maybe a 5e3 style deluxe, might be in your future.

    One of my amps is a mesa TA-15. The "tweed" setting is great if you want BF/SF tones, but not for tweeds, oddly enough. The TA-15 has an attenuator with 3 wattage settings. 5, 15, and 25 watts.
     
    Hatfield92 likes this.
  13. cyclopean

    cyclopean Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    5,139
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2009
    Location:
    innsmouth, MA
    it's actually not been loud enough a few times - we had a show a few months back where the drum machine was drowning out the guitars.
     
  14. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    12,586
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Location:
    northwest
    You're definitely outside the box for most gigs now days that I know of, but hey, NICE!
     
  15. MuddyWolf

    MuddyWolf Tele-Meister

    Age:
    57
    Posts:
    396
    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Location:
    Paradise, Ca
    If your band is a solid drawing act pulling in a couple hundred people the bar or venue will tolerate a loud band and count the cash. If you struggle to draw 30 people you are not in charge, the bar manager is and the bartender will want to hear the patrons order drinks without shouting. Casino gigs are even worse. Unless you are Foghat, you will need to be near completly silent and use in ear monitors. Sorry thats reality now. And its spreading across the country.
     
  16. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    940
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Location:
    Largo, Florida, USA
    Getting mixed signals here... Muddy/Genius, do either of you have any experience with the Maverick? I’ve heard it can do a lot to help rein in an amp, and here’s 8barlouie speaking from experience saying the same.

    Which makes me cautiously optimistic about the potential versatility of that 6g2 Maverick-equipped Combo in my future.

    Louie, what kind of gigs are you talking about? Style of music? Venue size? Describe your tone perhaps?
     
  17. Mark the Moose

    Mark the Moose Tele-Holic

    Age:
    45
    Posts:
    895
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2018
    Location:
    Erie, CO
    Sold my Blues Deluxe (40 watt modded to 28 watt) and built a 5f11 14 watt vibrolux. That and an sm57 covers all the bases. It's pretty tough to justify a bigger amp on nearly any gig most of us would play.
     
  18. richiek65

    richiek65 Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    3,891
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2012
    Location:
    Sydney NSW Australia
    Biggest awakening I had regarding watts/volume etc was at this show.. it was at a volume that filled the room, which was a smallish to medium size, 200 capacity perhaps? Was a Sunday afternoon show so maybe only a quarter full. Guitarist with tele was using a Pro Junior, 10watts I think they are? It was not miked up. I was floored by the sound it produced.

    Solo starts 3.15

    Someone else filmed the show, glad he did!

     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  19. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    940
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2019
    Location:
    Largo, Florida, USA
    That’s what I’m thinking.

    I’m nowhere near as experienced in the intricacies of tube amps and speakers as a lot of people here. But I’m learning as I go along. At this point, the thing I’m trying to learn is just how big a role speaker efficiency plays in this.

    I’m beginning to suspect it’s more than some of us realize.

    For the style of music I want to play (and with a tonal quality I seek), a 150w, 100 dB-plus speaker appears to be a negative.
     
    gridlock likes this.
  20. MuddyWolf

    MuddyWolf Tele-Meister

    Age:
    57
    Posts:
    396
    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Location:
    Paradise, Ca
    No ive never tried a maverick. If you feel a speaker change will quiet the amp enough i suppose its worth a try. My prediction is it wont be enough. Its not going to change a DR into a princeton. It will change the DR into slightly less loud DR. Its still a 22w amp.
     
    nojazzhere likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.