Fender's Justin Norvell Teases About New Tone Master Amp In The New Year

[BigDaddyLH]

TM Super SIX... only for braves. i ve never thinked in 2 modular amps to do it some kind of experiment.. transform a 2x12 or 2x10 on 6x12/10 adding a cab... like it.

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if you want us to bet, you got to give odds

 

[TC 57]

What you'll probably find is that Fender will do TM versions of amps they already produce because they can just split cabinets off the assembly line and install a different chassis. So probably tweedy stuff (Bassman, Champ) next. Other models will require new cabinets that might push the price up and give people something to complain about.

I'm not sure that is entirely the case-swapping cabinets...but being built in the USA does mean the amps are not as cheap as they would be if they were 100% Chinese

 

[TC 57]

Of course a computer can do more than one thing. But it may be advantageous to both seller and buyer for a given computer-enabled product to have limits on how many things it does. Take the original Twin Reverb and Deluxe Reverb - one is a 1x12, one is a 2x12. Many customers may not be interested in a “DR” that is in a 2x12 cabinet, or a TR in a 1x12 cabinet, especially if they’re most interested in the “amp-in-the-room” sound of the amp. So for those people, you can’t have a TR and a DR in the same cabinet. Given the success of the TM line, it seems there are plenty of players who prefer the one-trick pony. Or do you purport to know that all those buyers were really wanting one cabinet that emulated multiple amps? If so, why don’t all those buyers just purchase Fractals and Kempers and Line6? Maybe you would prefer Fender make a “super GTX100” combo with lots of very high quality models; maybe I’d prefer it too. But I confess I applaud Fender for knowing what appears to be a good-sized segment of their market.

And I didn’t read the quote at all like you did. I read it as Fender deciding to tackle the problem - high quality digital models of their flagship amp products suitable for recording and gigging - a bite at a time, and in such a way as to appeal to the buyer that they clearly identified as a significant part of their base, who just wants a classic Fender combo amp, lighter and with some additional functionality that makes it much more easily usable in today’s environments of direct-to-FOH, volume restrictions, etc. And the last quote from Fender in my original post clearly stated Fender has plenty of ideas that go beyond “retro reissues of amplifiers”, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you get your wish sooner rather than later.

Two points about this. TM's are two thirds the cost of the valve amp it emulates. Not $400 or less. Does that mean Fender still want people to buy their tube amps? from that , the question no one has answered ; Will Tonemasters and all the modellers & amp samplers, bring an end to tube amp production? I mean, who needs those? We've heard this before of course and tubes are still here !

 

[mycroftxxx]

Will Tonemasters and all the modellers & amp samplers, bring an end to tube amp production?

Fender employee @stilwel has stated multiple times recently that as long as there’s a market for tube amps, Fender will be supplying that market.

 

[birv2]

If it's a Bassman, I might have to rethink my purchase of the TMDR.

 

[TC 57]

Maybe Fender can drop in a Tweed patch for the TMDR? though if you want your TMDR to sound more "tweed" like, just invest in a cheap Joyo American Sound pedal, tweak the controls and you're in that territory. As a pro player who out of curiousity stumbled across Katanas, Blues Cubes and Tonemasters, I haven't used tube amps live or in a studio for 3 years now, and no longer own a tube amp. Tube amps for me are no longer practical..and as an old tech, I don't miss 'em

With the TM, I feel they could have put in an effects Loop...how much would that have added to cost?

 

[mycroftxxx]

With the TM, I feel they could have put in an effects Loop...how much would that have added to cost?

That’s been discussed ad nauseum on the Tonemaster threads…Fender personnel have stated on TGP (not sure if the statement has been made by Fender people here on TDPRI) that adding an effects loop would have introduced extra latency that would have been problematic to fix; other forumites have said that on a relatively low-gain amp like the Fenders, an effects loop doesn’t really make a lot of sense; and of course there’s the “well, the original amps didn’t have it” position, which personally I think is a weak argument because the originals didn’t have power scaling or direct-outs either. Ultimately, if no effects loop is a dealbreaker to you, then you’re not going to buy the Tonemaster or the corresponding tube amp either.

 

[TC 57]

That’s been discussed ad nauseum on the Tonemaster threads…Fender personnel have stated on TGP (not sure if the statement has been made by Fender people here on TDPRI) that adding an effects loop would have introduced extra latency that would have been problematic to fix; other forumites have said that on a relatively low-gain amp like the Fenders, an effects loop doesn’t really make a lot of sense; and of course there’s the “well, the original amps didn’t have it” position, which personally I think is a weak argument because the originals didn’t have power scaling or direct-outs either. Ultimately, if no effects loop is a dealbreaker to you, then you’re not going to buy the Tonemaster or the corresponding tube amp either.

 

[TC 57]

That’s been discussed ad nauseum on the Tonemaster threads…Fender personnel have stated on TGP (not sure if the statement has been made by Fender people here on TDPRI) that adding an effects loop would have introduced extra latency that would have been problematic to fix; other forumites have said that on a relatively low-gain amp like the Fenders, an effects loop doesn’t really make a lot of sense; and of course there’s the “well, the original amps didn’t have it” position, which personally I think is a weak argument because the originals didn’t have power scaling or direct-outs either. Ultimately, if no effects loop is a dealbreaker to you, then you’re not going to buy the Tonemaster or the corresponding tube amp either.

I was thinking along the lines that if enough people enquire-they will fit one! though I doubt it. I believe things like EQ pedals/ graphic equalisers, work best through the loop rather than at the front of an amp...

 

[Blrfl]

I was thinking along the lines that if enough people enquire-they will fit one! though I doubt it. I believe things like EQ pedals/ graphic equalisers, work best through the loop rather than at the front of an amp...

I'll second what @mycroftxxx said; if you're after an effects loop, the tube and digital versions of these amps aren't the droids you're looking for. None of Fender's classic designs had them. If you want that in something digital and Fender, the GTXes do it in stereo.

Fender's claim that adding an effects loop adds too much latency aside, they probably don't have enough spare converters in the CODEC chip they're using to implement one. That chip has four inputs and the current practice of using a high-gain and low-gain stage for each channel would consume all of them for the two channels on everything but the Princeton.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I'll second what @mycroftxxx said; if you're after an effects loop, the tube and digital versions of these amps aren't the droids you're looking for. None of Fender's classic designs had them. If you want that in something digital and Fender, the GTXes do it in stereo.

Fender's claim that adding an effects loop adds too much latency aside, they probably don't have enough spare converters in the CODEC chip they're using to implement one. That chip has four inputs and the current practice of using a high-gain and low-gain stage for each channel would consume all of them for the two channels on everything but the Princeton.

I personally believe it has much more to do with Fender's surgically-targeted marketing of these as lightweight, tubeless, attentuator-equipped versions of their classic amps than it does the technical limitations of chipsets and such. But that's just my bystander view as I'm not really in their target demographic.

FWIW, I also think they have been so phenomenally successful with the Tonemaster range that whatever their reason(s) they obviously made exactly the right call!

 

[TC 57]

I personally believe it has much more to do with Fender's surgically-targeted marketing of these as lightweight, tubeless, attentuator-equipped versions of their classic amps than it does the technical limitations of chipsets and such. But that's just my bystander view as I'm not really in their target demographic.

FWIW, I also think they have been so phenomenally successful with the Tonemaster range that whatever their reason(s) they obviously made exactly the right call!

Really ? It seems the price point put people off initially. Clearly they have converted a few. Aside from the amp section from China, I believe all else is made and assembled in their US/Mexican plants and probably quality control is higher

 

[Brent Hutto]

I've seen many comments online that Fender dealers are selling lots of Tonemasters. I know the local dealer here and there moves them pretty steadily.

I would assume Fender's target consumers are viewing Tonemaster's cost as low relative to the equivalent Fender tube amp rather than high relative to some generic digital combo.

 

[LOSTVENTURE]

The only one that'd interest me is a 1x12 with more power than the DRTM. Don't want to go to the Twin just to get more power, a single 12" can push more power. Basically a Tonemaster version of the Pro Reverb 68.
Except it goes to 100W when you plug int an extension cab.

And a gd FX loop.Any differences

Truth be told though, the TM still doesn't do it for me. A simple (and cheaper) HRD (I a/b'd both in the same room) has so much more depth and bloom.

I have an old (1966) Twin and the TM version. Any differences are very minor, but with the TM's power attenuator, I can do great tone at any volume.

 

[teletail]

Really ? It seems the price point put people off initially. Clearly they have converted a few. Aside from the amp section from China, I believe all else is made and assembled in their US/Mexican plants and probably quality control is higher

Some people. The same people post 5 times complaining about the price, it can look like five people complaining. Based on sales and they fact that you see them everywhere, it doesn't look like that many people are put off by the price.

As an comment unrelated to the above post, I don't know why some people think that all amps should be all things to all people. You like tube amps? Fine, don't buy a Tonemaster. Can't afford one; too expensive? Don't buy one. You want an effects loop? Buy a different amp. You're worried about reliability (without any basis in fact)? Don't buy one. I'm not sure why they feel the need to pee all over someone else's parade.

 

[Blrfl]

Aside from the amp section from China, I believe all else is made and assembled in their US/Mexican plants and probably quality control is higher

That is correct. There's nothing in the chassis that would benefit from the product being hand-wired by dwarf monks cloistered in a cave outside Burbank.

 

[ETMusic777]

It appears, that with AI deep fake videos and voice coming in (its almost perfect already), along with amp sims....that we will become a "society of approximation".

Perhaps then the value of the real deal tube amps will go up as they are appreciated more and more for what they are. Someday we will be choosing between going to restaurants where robots serve us, or paying a little more (though our digital currency card/app for restaurants which feature real human servers and real cooks....along with bug-free, real meat and vegetables.

 

[Brent Hutto]

...and sometimes a guitar amp is just a guitar amp.

--Sigmund Freud (paraphrased)

 

[Mike M]

...and sometimes a guitar amp is just a guitar amp.

--Sigmund Freud (paraphrased)

No, it's always representative of larger social, economic, and existential issues within our society.

Me & Leo Fender