Fender's Justin Norvell Teases About New Tone Master Amp In The New Year

[bobio]

He says “platform.” Could we also take this to mean that more firmware options could be made available for existing TMs in the wild?

Possibilities:

“64 Custom DR” load out, based on the current, top-of-the line, hand-wired Deluxe Reverb. This would have a bright cap in the appropriate channel, BUT would allow BOTH channels to use verb and trem. This has precedent and would give current owners the best of both current firmware options. (Minus the different IRs, of course)

Or maybe this: a “Tweed” model on the Normal channel of the current two channel models. Appropriately, this would not go through the reverb and trem, as tweeds did not have these features. Or maybe you could just for grins.

My point is: I know they don’t want this model to get lost in options, but a few officially sanctioned load outs that allow the purchaser to get the features that work for them would be really cool.

That goes against the quote regarding the TM line:

And the Tone Master was a move to say, we're NOT going to make this digital amp do 100 things pretty well, we're gonna make it do basically one thing extremely well, and show that you can get to tone with a digital amp.

I seriously doubt we are going to see any firmware updates that add new features.

 

[dinomike77]

They’ve already offered the bright switch mod, reverb mod and different IRs. This isn’t asking the amp to do “100” different things. It’s giving the user curated suite of different load outs.

 

[bobio]

They’ve already offered the bright switch mod, reverb mod and different IRs. This isn’t asking the amp to do “100” different things. It’s giving the user curated suite of different load outs.

Those were not new "features", they were fixes done in response to widely received complaints.

 

[dinomike77]

Seems like a lot of guys here complain about the “limitations” of these amps! Why not “respond” to them?!

I agree with you that my suggestions seem unlikely, but I’ve thrown them out there a few times because I know certain Fender employees look at these threads. I love my Blonde TMDR just as it is, but that doesn’t stop me from thinking a little tweakability might be nice. Mentioning it doesn’t hurt anyone.

If Fender won’t do it, how long till someone hacks these things. Consider this: Your amp’s “brain” dies and needs to be replaced, but the amp is out of warranty. By that time, say that they have a Tweed TM line. If someone had the skill set to program your new module mixing and matching the available, official models when slapping it in, wouldn’t that be cool? Especially if it would make your Normal channel something you’d actually use. It’s kinda like my buddy who had one of the channels on his SF Bassman head wired like a Marshall. Except you’d be doing it with software.

 

[bobio]

Seems like a lot of guys here complain about the “limitations” of these amps! Why not “respond” to them?!

I agree with you that my suggestions seem unlikely, but I’ve thrown them out there a few times because I know certain Fender employees look at these threads. I love my Blonde TMDR just as it is, but that doesn’t stop me from thinking a little tweakability might be nice. Mentioning it doesn’t hurt anyone.

If Fender won’t do it, how long till someone hacks these things. Consider this: Your amp’s “brain” dies and needs to be replaced, but the amp is out of warranty. By that time, say that they have a Tweed TM line. If someone had the skill set to program your new module mixing and matching the available, official models when slapping it in, wouldn’t that be cool? Especially if it would make your Normal channel something you’d actually use. It’s kinda like my buddy who had one of the channels on his SF Bassman head wired like a Marshall. Except you’d be doing it with software.

Simple, "a lot of guys" here isn't really a lot of guys.

Remember the Mustang I and II lines? People talked about hacking them when Fender dropped Fuse support.
Never really materialized...

 

[mycroftxxx]

I think there were some interesting amp-related but not TM tidbits in there; relevant parts bolded:

I think that digital always was, for many years, a compromise where you got a lot of versatility, it was less finicky maybe live. It was lightweight, portable, but you lost the tonality – something in the tonality. And the Tone Master was a move to say, we're not going to make this digital amp do 100 things pretty well, we're gonna make it do basically one thing extremely well, and show that you can get to tone with a digital amp. I think that just blows the doors off and blows everything wide open.

"From there, there's tons of stuff in our r&d, and in our design areas right now that we're working on to that end. And not just more retro reissues of amplifiers.

I think you can interpret that last statement a lot of different ways, but one is that there will be other Fender high quality modelers that aren’t “retro amp reissues”(which seems to describe the Tonemasters quite well). My completely off-the-wall prognostication, ranked from most likely to least, is that this could encompass (a) a multi-effects unit to take on products like the HX Stomp; (b) a Mustang GTX successor with much more processing power and most/all the current amp models supplanted by models derived from the TM modeling approach (the Blues Jr. model in the GTX, which Fender has said was done using the same approach they used for the TMs, sounds dead-on to my ears, and I play through a “real” BJr regularly); (c) a PA with amp models built in; and/or (d) a floor unit to take on the Line6, Fractal, QC, Kemper, etc. floor units. There’re probably lots of other possibilities I haven’t even thought of.

But the good news here is that Fender is thinking about how to take what they’re learned with the TMs and keep evolving it and expanding the kinds of products they’re making. I’m still hoping for a TM Tweed Bassman this summer though

 

[johnnyASAT]

From that passage of the interview I have to wonder if we’ll see something like a Fender alternative to the Katana where you’ve got some of their pedal algorithms to choose from along with a couple of amps. I could see one with a Deluxe/Princeton switch and some verb and mod options. Also if you’re waiting for a TM Bassman, if that doesn’t materialize the Blues Cube Stage and Artist are waiting for you.

 

[burntfrijoles]

What’s left other than tweed era amps?
I decided to add an attenuator to my PRRI rather than trade it for a TM amp.

 

[scelestus]

Mmmm Prosonic.

 

[maxvintage]

I might bite on a TM tweed deluxe

 

[johnnyASAT]

Yeah every time I think about what they could do to add to the TM line I just end up inventing the Aviator Cub in my head.

 

[Pointmonger]

Tone Master Greta.

 

[trandy9850]

I might bite on a TM tweed deluxe

That’s something I didn’t think of….and that could be very cool.

 

[beyer160]

And the Tone Master was a move to say, we're not going to make this digital amp do 100 things pretty well, we're gonna make it do basically one thing extremely well,

This is hilarious. I guess they're counting on people not understanding that a Tonemaster is just a computer hooked to a class D power amp.

 

[mycroftxxx]

And the Tone Master was a move to say, we're not going to make this digital amp do 100 things pretty well, we're gonna make it do basically one thing extremely well,

This is hilarious. I guess they're counting on people not understanding that a Tonemaster is just a computer hooked to a class D power amp.

The word “just” is doing a huge amount of heavy lifting in that sentence…

Better not get on a modern airplane; it’s “just” a bunch of computers hooked to some hydraulics. Or watch TV; it’s “just” a computer hooked to a screen. Or drive a semi-modern car; it’s “just” a bunch of computers hooked to an engine and transmission. Those darned computers - is there anything they can’t “just” do??

 

[mycroftxxx]

What’s left other than tweed era amps?
I decided to add an attenuator to my PRRI rather than trade it for a TM amp.

Vibro-King. I’ve never played one, and they’re no longer in production and rare (supposedly Townshend has a stash), but the Mustang GTX model of the VK sounds terrific. I’d love to try one that’s been given the TM treatment.

Tube amp attenuators…I’d love to try a good one, but for a 45 watt amp like the Bassman, can an attenuator really get you that classic overdrive tone at reasonable volume for playing with other people in the house? I don’t require levels that wouldn’t wake the baby (well past baby-living-in-the-house stage), but would prefer to shut the door and not overly affect the other denizens of the place, without requiring a soundproof room. The wide range of power scaling to me is the sine qua non of the TM amps, followed closely by the light weight.

As far as the Blues Cube line…if I’m going to spend money on a Tweed Bassman style amp, it had better be a 4x10, so I’d be looking at the Blues Cube Tour head (if it’s still available; it’s on Roland’s web site but doesn’t seem to be available anywhere in the US at least) plus the associated 4x10 cab, so like $3500 at least. I would expect a TM Bassman to come in at less than half that. If the only option was a 1x12 (i.e., the Blues Cube Stage and Artist), I’ll just stick with my GTX100.

 

[beyer160]

The word “just” is doing a huge amount of heavy lifting in that sentence…

Better not get on a modern airplane; it’s “just” a bunch of computers hooked to some hydraulics. Or watch TV; it’s “just” a computer hooked to a screen. Or drive a semi-modern car; it’s “just” a bunch of computers hooked to an engine and transmission. Those darned computers - is there anything they can’t “just” do??

The point is, a computer can do more than one thing.

You don't need one laptop for your email and another one to play Call Of Duty. The quote implies that each Tone Master amp is a unique circuit that does one thing well, but in reality it's a computer than can run the Twin model just as easily as the Deluxe model. The only reason they don't make a Tone Master than can emulate multiple amps is that they want to sell you multiple amps, not that the infrastructure of the amp is so complex that it can only do one thing at a time.

 

[mycroftxxx]

The point is, a computer can do more than one thing.

You don't need one laptop for your email and another one to play Call Of Duty. The quote implies that each Tone Master amp is a unique circuit that does one thing well, but in reality it's a computer than can run the Twin model just as easily as the Deluxe model. The only reason they don't make a Tone Master than can emulate multiple amps is that they want to sell you multiple amps, not that the infrastructure of the amp is so complex that it can only do one thing at a time.

Of course a computer can do more than one thing. But it may be advantageous to both seller and buyer for a given computer-enabled product to have limits on how many things it does. Take the original Twin Reverb and Deluxe Reverb - one is a 1x12, one is a 2x12. Many customers may not be interested in a “DR” that is in a 2x12 cabinet, or a TR in a 1x12 cabinet, especially if they’re most interested in the “amp-in-the-room” sound of the amp. So for those people, you can’t have a TR and a DR in the same cabinet. Given the success of the TM line, it seems there are plenty of players who prefer the one-trick pony. Or do you purport to know that all those buyers were really wanting one cabinet that emulated multiple amps? If so, why don’t all those buyers just purchase Fractals and Kempers and Line6? Maybe you would prefer Fender make a “super GTX100” combo with lots of very high quality models; maybe I’d prefer it too. But I confess I applaud Fender for knowing what appears to be a good-sized segment of their market.

And I didn’t read the quote at all like you did. I read it as Fender deciding to tackle the problem - high quality digital models of their flagship amp products suitable for recording and gigging - a bite at a time, and in such a way as to appeal to the buyer that they clearly identified as a significant part of their base, who just wants a classic Fender combo amp, lighter and with some additional functionality that makes it much more easily usable in today’s environments of direct-to-FOH, volume restrictions, etc. And the last quote from Fender in my original post clearly stated Fender has plenty of ideas that go beyond “retro reissues of amplifiers”, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you get your wish sooner rather than later.

 

[ahiddentableau]

Pivoting to the tweed amps is pretty clearly the next logical step. Maybe they can squeeze one or two more models out of the BF/SF era but they've hit the saturation point there, or close to it. So, yeah, my money is on a tweed bassman or deluxe.

 

[beyer160]

Of course a computer can do more than one thing. But it may be advantageous to both seller and buyer for a given computer-enabled product to have limits on how many things it does. Take the original Twin Reverb and Deluxe Reverb - one is a 1x12, one is a 2x12. Many customers may not be interested in a “DR” that is in a 2x12 cabinet, or a TR in a 1x12 cabinet, especially if they’re most interested in the “amp-in-the-room” sound of the amp. So for those people, you can’t have a TR and a DR in the same cabinet.

You could have a 1x12 amp and a 2x12 that run the same computer with the same emulations though, that'd be simple.

Fender is catering to traditionalists because they think their market is traditionalists, and they're most likely right. All you need to do is read any thread about Tonemasters on TDPRI to see plenty of guys resolutely sticking their heads in the sand because anything more complicated than an amp layout from 1965 is "too complicated."

And the last quote from Fender in my original post clearly stated Fender has plenty of ideas that go beyond “retro reissues of amplifiers”, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised if you get your wish sooner rather than later.

Having heard the Tonemaster Twin and Deluxe I'm not really interested in owning one, but I do find them interesting from a technological point of view. I certainly wouldn't have any use for a modeling amp that only did Fenders, but the technology Fender developed for the Tonemaster series should be easily adaptable to other makes of amps.