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Fender Vibroverb 63' RI - 10 inch speakers replacement

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by bkfloyd94, Apr 23, 2018.

Best combo for VVRI?

  1. 2xP10R

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  2. 2xC10R

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 2xC10Q

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  4. P10R & C10R

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 2xEminence Ragin Cajun

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. 2xEminence Legend 1058

    9 vote(s)
    60.0%
  7. P10R & C10Q

    1 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. bkfloyd94

    bkfloyd94 TDPRI Member

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    Dear fellas!

    So I've decided to replace my stock Oxford speakers in my VVRI.

    These are the speakers I've came across and I need you to help me decide. As for online video reviews, everything sounds so similiar.

    Jensens: P10R, C10R, C10Q
    Eminence: Legend 1058, Ragin Cajun

    If anyone can compare these speakers, it would be really great. I was thinking to get a combination of one P10R and one C10R/C10Q.

    Current speakers are getting harsh and muddy on a volume 5+. My friend has SRRI with 4 Jensen P10Rs and it sounds very clear and transparent even on a higher volume (7) and that's what I want to achieve.

    Please stick with the speakers I've mentioned, Webers or any other more expensive are out of my budget.

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Start by understanding the sensitivity/efficiency of your current speakers.

    Then ask, do you want to add, subtract or keep roughly the same volume.

    That answer will probably cull your list.

    Mixing speakers is trucker than some believe IMO. Makes your sound more variable room to room due to phase issues.
     
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  3. bkfloyd94

    bkfloyd94 TDPRI Member

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    I don't like the fact that current Oxfords breakup around 5 and the more volume I use the dirtier they get. Notes get muddy and adding any drive from pedalboard causes the loss of pedals character.

    So regarding to that, I want to add more volume to keep my tone clean and characteristic to VVRI.
     
  4. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I didn't vote... Because I would suggest another option or two. A pair of Eminence 1028s or a 1028 and a 1058.

    I have a P10R and C10R in mine and love it. But, I have P10r and 1028s in my Bassman and might just prefer the Eminence speakers. If I ever unload some of my used Jensens, I will probably try the Eminence mixture.

    When I bought my amp, years ago, the Oxfords were muddy and farted out bad. The first thing I did to the amp was plop those Jensens in. It was literally like taking a blanket off the amp! Those Jensens have been workhorses, too.

    You could go high dollar and grab some Celestion Golds. They are highly thought of in this application too. Though, probably more efficient.
     
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  5. bkfloyd94

    bkfloyd94 TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for your reply sir. I'm in a situation that I'm not able to play around and test several mixes since my limited budget eh.

    Have you experienced any phase issues due to two different speakers in a combo? I'm reffereing to the thing MilwMark mentioned above.
     
  6. Mr.Ike

    Mr.Ike Tele-Meister

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    Got some Webber’s in mine that I LOVE.
     
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  7. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Friend of Leo's

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    As I recall, the '63 Vibro is 40 watts. That's why I liked the C10Q's. At 35 watts, each speaker gets 20 watts.

    The P10R's (at 25 watts each) may break up early, as each speaker will see 20 watts. Now, these are AlNiCo, so they will compress more than the ceramic C10Q when pushed. This may or may not be desirable, but it will shave off some brightness when playing loudly.
     
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  8. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I haven't at all. I've actually experienced nothing but the plusses from both speakers. After using this combo in this amp, I became a huge fan of mixing ceramic and alnico. The Jensens are close enough in power handling and efficiency, that they combine really, really well.

    I also bought used speakers (and let someone else o the break in). I think this is a huge part of success... giving the speakers long enough to break in. Of course buying used made it possible to make the swap without killing my budget, as well.
     
  9. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Your stock VVRI is unlikely to have Oxford speakers unless you put them there. They would be some sort of Eminence OEM if they're 'Fender Special Design'.

    Edit: they're 'Oxford Copies' - meaning, something not expensive that looks like the old ones.

    As someone said, work out what you want. C10R and P10R speakers have smaller magnets, voice coil and will be probably less efficient with less bass. So you get less volume but earlier breakup. Squawky and honky, they tend to suit Tweeds IMO but some people like their brash compressed upper mids. Home-use or recording speakers, good pick.

    C10 and P10Q will sound fuller with more volume, bassier presence and later breakup. They still have a somewhat brash persona but smoother than the Rs. Many people like their coloration.

    The legend 1058 is a bit more efficient, open, sparkly at the top, which will again be louder as a 98 db SPL speaker. This is a good all round speaker for gigging which favours the amp's natural tone - if the amp sounds sterile or dull, head back to the C10 or P10Q. If you like neutral airiness but with the slight crisp krang of alnico, the 1028.

    The VVRI being based on the RI Deluxe tends to be a middy amp with early breakup IIRC so you could do worse than the 1058 which is a safe pick. I don't know about a Rajun Cajun. Might be a tad dark as heavier hemp cone speakers can. You might love it. Many seem to.
     
  10. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    @Dacious, they are listed as Oxford speakers... But, they were specially built for Fender for these amps.

    It also is not based on any Ri Deluxe. It is based on the 6g16 Vibroverb circuit of 1963, with the only major change being a solid state rectifier circuit. It even has the tapped treble pot, like the originals. It is brownface through and through.

    I like your description of the speakers. I think you hit them spot on!

    My addition to your comments on the C10R and P10R would include that this amp has an increased mid presence, between Blackface and Tweed... Probably closer to Tweed in it's warmth. So, the Jensens seem to be a good fit. The original 6g16 circuit, is definitely a direct link between Tweed and ab763 circuits. Similar EQ topology, but not nearly as scooped.
     
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  11. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think these share the reissue Deluxe power and output transformer with a SS rectifier as you say. I thought the board was the same too - my mistake.

    The one I played through a long time ago was very middy, warm, noisy with brittle punch but low headroom. Yes, they're a halfway house and a bit Bluesbreaker in character.
     
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  12. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity

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    Forget any options but the two Emis.
    But better yet, get the Emi GA SC64's. Similar to the 1058's but better character and tamed harshness.
    Those original "oxford make believes" are just plain terrible. But named after the highest value old Oxfords out there.
    [​IMG]
     
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  13. dannyh

    dannyh Tele-Afflicted

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    This is my experience with the Italian P10Rs in my VVRI.

    Of the speakers the op listed, the Jensen ceramics, the mix of Jensen ceramic and Alnico, or the Emi spkrs would be my choice to try.

    My personal choice (particularly for headroom) in my VVRI are WGS G10Cs. I also like the Emi 1028K’s in there immensely, but the G10Cs cut thru better ime.
     
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  14. bkfloyd94

    bkfloyd94 TDPRI Member

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    Wow what a great reply by @Dacious and @1300 E Valencia. I've learnt more than I expected and that's the exact type of the answers I needed! More of such replies are still welcome though.

    At least I'm sure I won't go with two P10Rs now which I like since others are twice as cheap haha.

    @Axis29 what volume you play at? I believe all of the mentioned combinations sound good enough around 4, as do my Oxfords, but I'm specifically wondering how do the speakers sound around 5/6+. Before @1300 E Valencia reply I was 70% sure I'd go with the combo you have but now I doubt about it.

    I need enough headroom for my pedals. Drive pedals I use are TS9, Euphoria and RAT (less often).
     
  15. gridlock

    gridlock Poster Extraordinaire

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    Here is suggestions from Weber on new speakers for my 1994 ‘63 Vibroverb RI.

    I currently have an Eminence and a Tone Tubby in my VV. It sounds great as is, but I was wanting more BF tone at the time. I’ve since bought a Vibrolux Reverb that is being BF’d, so I will have that tone covered in a small combo. I’ll leave speakers in the VV for now.

    Weber’s suggestions below.

    Suggestion #1: a mix of 10F150 and 10A125.
    10A125 (30w, light dope) -- smooth sweet high end with a crystal clear response and smooth compression
    10F150 (25w, light dope) -- strong tight low end and great headroom

    Suggestion #2: two 10A125 for a distinctly Alnico vibe. (these would be like p10q’s, which are a little beefier than p10r’s.) this suggestion will have less low end than #1.

    Suggestion #3: a mix of 10F150 and 10F125. (for all ceramic, which means cleaner and punchier with more headroom)
    10F125 (30w, light dope) -- crystal clear response on the high end without being harsh
    10F150 (25w, light dope) -- strong tight low end and
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  16. caspersvapors

    caspersvapors Tele-Meister

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    None of the above

    Eminence GA10-SC64
     
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  17. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I'm playing at all kinds of volumes, low volume home practice. Bigger volumes as the lone guitar player in a 4 piece electric. Even bigger volumes hosting jams with sometimes three guitar players and a couple of drummers who beat the skins like they molested them as kids. On the first tow situations, I have pretty good clean headroom... The last scenario, not so much.
     
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  18. bkfloyd94

    bkfloyd94 TDPRI Member

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    As for now, my favorite combo seems to be P10Q and C10Q. Regarding to "wattage sharing" (if that term exists haha), with those two (40W and 35W) I'd have plenty of headroom and I'd still get everything from both worlds - alnico and ceramic.

    The other option was P10Q & C10R or P10R & C10Q. Dunno if 25W & 35W makes a better combo maybe!

    Correct me if I'm wrong!
     
  19. Axis29

    Axis29 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Actually, the wattage rating doesn't matter.

    It's the efficiency, if anything. Although I have found that that doesn't always matter either. Other than known combos, like C10R and P10R, or Blue and Gold, kinda thing, there is no way to predict the outcome of speaker mixing. Ya just gotta give it a shot and see what happens.

    Interestingly, I've done some weird combos and had great success, more often than failure. In my Tweed Twin, I have a Celestion Creamback 65 and an Eminence 1258. Efficiency is a little off, wit the Creamback being the stronger speaker. But, they blend really well. The amp sounds like a Tweed Twin. I'd like to switch over to two alnico speakers, but I just can't afford it.
     
  20. swampyankee

    swampyankee Tele-Holic

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    I have P10R's in my VVRI and I like them because I believe they bring out the intended character of the amp. I don't play mine at more than 4 with single coils for clean. I will push it beyond that but only if I'm intending to get some growl, which it does quite well. Even though the amp is rated at 40 watts, I consider it my 30 watt amp, volume-wise. If I want more than that I reach for my Concert Amp (60 watts, clean at twice the volume) or the SFTR for infinity and beyond.

    Horses for courses as they say.
     
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