Fender Vibro Champ Custom or vintage Bronco?

[stefanhotrod]

Which one should I buy? I‘m offered a 1972 Bronco for a very decent price:

The amp is in very fine condition.

On the other hand there’s the Vibro Champ Custom with it’s wonderful tone and the bigger speaker for 200 bucks less. I love it‘s tone but I hate PCB‘s.

I need a five watter for home/recording.
Argh…what do you think?

 

[fenderchamp]

Isn't a vibro champ custom a $900 USD amplifier?

The Bronco is cheap at $1100 USD?

I guess vintage Champs and their ilk really are going through the roof.

If you want a collectors item, buy the Bronco, they are certainly rare and commanding as much or more than even a blackface champ is now it seems.

I wouldn't shuck out $900 for one of those new vibro champs personally, I played one at the guitar shop and it sounded good and all but $1000 for that little thing, You can just about get a nice used DR.Z or a Swarte for that.

If I just really wanted a basic little 5w or so tube amp to play at home with an 8'' or 10'' speaker. I would look for an old Gibson or a Silvertone, Alamo, Airline, Harmony, or a 5F1 clone etc for under $500 and use that, I've played a few dozen little tiny tube amps with 8'' speakers and they are all pretty similar and they are pretty common still. I personally have a champ, a Gibon skylark and a tiny old silvertone. The champ and silvertone are very similar. I had an old Kent that sounded pretty much like either of them too.

I personally don't care about Vibrato/Trem circuits in tiny amps either, and none of the three I currenly own have them.

Of the two choices you mentioned I would get the Bronco for sure, but only If I really wanted it as a collectible, it will sound pretty much like any other little champish thing, it's expensive because of it's red lettering and relative rareness.

If I wanted to spend $1000 on a recording solution I'd look at a used Swarte etc maybe.

If I just wanted an amp to mess around on at home I'd look at clones or old "not fender" tube amps.

 

[King Fan]

A decent price in Germany may be high by US standards.

Price aside, the old amp has lots of collector and 'cool/real' value, but may need a careful overhaul/update to sound its best and keep working reliably. Add that to the cost.

The new amp will have warranty for a while; only you can decide if the bigger speaker and digital reverb matter to you. “I love the tone but hate the PCBs” is a *very* typical feeling, widely shared in our amp world, but its root logic is a bit unclear — may be worth a hard look.

 

[Whatizitman]

Bronco. Vintage is almost always cooler. But also because they were built to last and are very easy to service and repair. But I like to do that myself. And I'd much rather work on an old tube amp than a newer one.

EDIT: $1100? A bit much for a silverface IMO in the US. But I don't know European markets for Fenders.

 

[InstantCoffeeBlue]

European market or no, there is not $1100 worth of tone in the Bronco or any of the BF/Silverface Champ/VibroChamps in my opinion. These amps make sense at $500-600; anything more than that, no.

 

[fenderchamp]

European market or no, there is not $1100 worth of tone in the Bronco or any of the BF/Silverface Champ/VibroChamps in my opinion. These amps make sense at $500-600; anything more than that, no.

I know that sensible individuals tend to equate tone with the value of old gear, but really the value is in the collectability of the item.

I personally don't think, from the standpoint of "tone value" or usefulness that a bronco is worth anything more than a silverface vibro champ, or that either is worth what they are selling for nowadays, but you aren't buying tone, you are buying a collectible, a time capsule as it were. Anything is really obviously worth what it sells for.

Small fender amps are commanding a premium price as collectibles these days, for whatever reason. Superman #1, as entertainment, is certainly not worth what it's selling for either.

 

[kuch]

Isn't the Bronco the same as a VC?

from the Fender Amp Field guide

1967-1975 Bronco​

1968 Bronco

Year:​	1967-1975
Model:​	Bronco
Circuit:​	AB764
Config:​	Combo
Control Panel:​	Silver forward facing w/ red labels
Front Conrol Layout:​	In, In, Vol, Treb, Bass, Speed, Intensity - Power Sw, Pilot Lamp
Knobs:​	Black skirted w/ chrome center, numbered 1 - 10
Cabinet:​	14½" x 17" x 7¼" (36.8 x 43.2 x 18.4 cm)
Cab Covering:​	Black Tolex
Cab Hardware:​	Black Strap handle, 3½" chassis straps, glides
Grille:​	Blue sparkle grille cloth w/ aluminum frame (68-69), w/o aluminum frame (70-75)
Logo:​	Grille mounted, raised, chrome & black script "Fender" w/ tail (68-69) or w/o tail(70-75)
Weight:​	20 lbs. (9.1 Kg)
Speakers/Load:​	1 x 8"/4 ohms
Speaker Model:​	Oxford 8EV
Effects:​	Tremolo
Output:​	6 Watts
Preamp:​	12AX7A
Power:​	6V6GTA
Bias:​	Cathode Bias
Rectifier:​	5Y3GT
Other:​	Tremolo: 12AX7A (bias vary)
Comments:​	The circuit number on the schematic seems very early for an amp released in 1967. This is most likely due to the fact that the Bronco and the Vibro Champ are nearly identical.

 

[kuch]

I have a SF Vibro Champ. For home playing and recording, it's worth it's weight in gold-to me.....
and contrary to some peoples views, the tremolo is amazing. it adds almost a "3D" effect to the sound. Never heard it on any other amp I've heard.

I really don't care about the value of the VC. The real value is in the sound!
And, I got it free in a trade about 12 years ago.

Edit: I also picked up a EC VC in mint/new condition years ago and it wasn't even close to my VC. this reporters opinion.....

 

[String Tree]

Bronco.

 

[stefanhotrod]

Hehe, thanks guys!
True, I‘m located in germany so US-prices are completely different ;-)

I‘m talking about 800€ for the little vintage beast vs. ~600€ for a second hand Vibro Champ Custom Reverb.
Since I've been building guitars, I've become just a home guitarist, so I only need a small amp.

 

[stefanhotrod]

Isn't the Bronco the same as a VC?

from the Fender Amp Field guide

1967-1975 Bronco​

1968 Bronco

​

Year:​	1967-1975
Model:​	Bronco
Circuit:​	AB764
Config:​	Combo
Control Panel:​	Silver forward facing w/ red labels
Front Conrol Layout:​	In, In, Vol, Treb, Bass, Speed, Intensity - Power Sw, Pilot Lamp
Knobs:​	Black skirted w/ chrome center, numbered 1 - 10
Cabinet:​	14½" x 17" x 7¼" (36.8 x 43.2 x 18.4 cm)
Cab Covering:​	Black Tolex
Cab Hardware:​	Black Strap handle, 3½" chassis straps, glides
Grille:​	Blue sparkle grille cloth w/ aluminum frame (68-69), w/o aluminum frame (70-75)
Logo:​	Grille mounted, raised, chrome & black script "Fender" w/ tail (68-69) or w/o tail(70-75)
Weight:​	20 lbs. (9.1 Kg)
Speakers/Load:​	1 x 8"/4 ohms
Speaker Model:​	Oxford 8EV
Effects:​	Tremolo
Output:​	6 Watts
Preamp:​	12AX7A
Power:​	6V6GTA
Bias:​	Cathode Bias
Rectifier:​	5Y3GT
Other:​	Tremolo: 12AX7A (bias vary)
Comments:​	The circuit number on the schematic seems very early for an amp released in 1967. This is most likely due to the fact that the Bronco and the Vibro Champ are nearly identical.

Yes, afaik completely identical but 1 Watt more

 

[stefanhotrod]

Isn't a vibro champ custom a $900 USD amplifier?

The Bronco is cheap at $1100 USD?

I guess vintage Champs and their ilk really are going through the roof.

If you want a collectors item, buy the Bronco, they are certainly rare and commanding as much or more than even a blackface champ is now it seems.

I wouldn't shuck out $900 for one of those new vibro champs personally, I played one at the guitar shop and it sounded good and all but $1000 for that little thing, You can just about get a nice used DR.Z or a Swarte for that.

If I just really wanted a basic little 5w or so tube amp to play at home with an 8'' or 10'' speaker. I would look for an old Gibson or a Silvertone, Alamo, Airline, Harmony, or a 5F1 clone etc for under $500 and use that, I've played a few dozen little tiny tube amps with 8'' speakers and they are all pretty similar and they are pretty common still. I personally have a champ, a Gibon skylark and a tiny old silvertone. The champ and silvertone are very similar. I had an old Kent that sounded pretty much like either of them too.

I personally don't care about Vibrato/Trem circuits in tiny amps either, and none of the three I currenly own have them.

Of the two choices you mentioned I would get the Bronco for sure, but only If I really wanted it as a collectible, it will sound pretty much like any other little champish thing, it's expensive because of it's red lettering and relative rareness.

If I wanted to spend $1000 on a recording solution I'd look at a used Swarte etc maybe.

If I just wanted an amp to mess around on at home I'd look at clones or old "not fender" tube amps.

Thanks!
I‘ve played a Swart AST Master and an STR Tremolo some years ago, fantastic amps. But even the STR is roundabout 1.500€ second hand here in germany- if you find one!

 

[Liriodendron]

I'd go for the Bronco. It will be easy to keep running for the rest of your life if the tube amp aftermarket stays the same as it is now. Any part can be had and replaced with as good, or better than new. The amp is easy to service and work on (unlike the PCB). We have no idea how the new champs will age, and how long they will be (worthwhile to be) servicable in the future.

 

[stefanhotrod]

We have no idea how the new champs will age, and how long they will be (worthwhile to be) servicable in the future.

That’s exactly my personal PCB-fear. Who knows how long the board will resist the heat of the tubes?

 

[milocj]

I'd go for the Bronco for sure over a used VCR.

 

[Liriodendron]

That’s exactly my personal PCB-fear. Who knows how long the board will resist the heat of the tubes?

I have a feeling they'll be OK and be servicable for the most part (although not enjoyably so). But I KNOW the Bronco IS and will be solid for years to come.


The Bronco/SF/BF Champ are also all great pedal platforms. They're basically a SE version of the non-Reverb Princeton. The only thing that would make them better is a buffered FX loop so you could add reverb to them. With all the digital reverb pedals out now, this would be my only complaint. One could easily modify a Bronco to have this though...

 

[kuch]

After years of looking for a Fender reverb unit to use with my VC, the light bulb clicked on last year and I finally got a couple reverb pedals. My fav so far is the Catalinbread Topanga Burnside.
Another pedal that works really well for reverb/delay is the Keeley 30ms double tracker.

 

[stefanhotrod]

Hard to beat that tone. FFW to 01:30“:“Dream Puppy“ by the Sweet Enough. Fantastic playing and a killer clean.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

I'd take the Bronco in a heartbeat...

 

[d barham]

Buy both. Sell the one you don’t want for €200 more than you paid for it.