Fender Super Six cleaning it up

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by JeffBro, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. JeffBro

    JeffBro TDPRI Member

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    this is beast of an amp and was playing it a bit when I first purchased it about 15 years ago

    any cool mods or updates I should consider?

    Also, I want to replace all the tubes, I was looking at Gold Lion(KT66), but the Fender Amp's heating element might not have enough volts for their power tubes?

    They say the heater draw at 1.3v(KT66) is more than the traditional 900mA 6L6...

    also, not sure what the difference between the two jack inputs are on the front and if it preferred to use one or the other or both?











    not sure if this is the correct schematic, but I found it online
     
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  2. Bowpickins

    Bowpickins Tele-Meister

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    The input jacks have different volume levels, which can help with compensating different pickup output. Input #1 is what I normally plug my telcasters, or stratocaster in when playing through my amps. Input #2 has less gain to it, so you can run a guitar with humbuckers, or any other high output pickup, and not overdrive the preamp section of the amp too soon. I believe that input #2 has about 6db less than input #1 (not entirely sure). I run my fiddle through my fender amps, too, but I use the 2nd input of the normal channel, as my pickup can overdrive a lower wattage combo fender amp if I'm on input #1. Plugging into either, input #1, or #2, can have effects on your tone as you're hitting the preamp with different input levels. Just try both and figure out which one works for your sound.
    Hope this helps. :)

    Joseph.
     
  3. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Why change all the valves? Unless one exhibits microphony or some other issue modern production tubes are probably inferior. Gold Lion are regarded as high end audio rather than guitar amp tubes. Their price is reflective.

    Caps need changing. Other than that a good cleanup and general fettle good for another 20 years.
     
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  4. JeffBro

    JeffBro TDPRI Member

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    hey Joseph,

    thanks for information.

    have you ever run both channels at once?
     
  5. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Plus one on Dacious’ suggestion of a recap...all of the electrolytics need to be replaced. Good general service should be done at the same time. The bias circuit is a balancing circuit. I prefer to add a trim pot to adjust the voltage while maintaining the balancing circuit. Others go whole hog and BF the bias and power supply circuit.
    The two channels are out of phase, so daisy chaining them results in a thin, weak sound...not good unless that is what you want for a particular purpose, ime. The reverb can be added to the Normal channel to establish a third gain stage there and achieve an in phase relationship. Then, one can run both channels simultaneously and be in-phase.
    One wonders what speaker load you run on that amp? It carries a 4 ohm OT, correct? does it read ‘5 ohms’ under that speaker jack. I have never seen one of these amps in person is why I ask.
     
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  6. JeffBro

    JeffBro TDPRI Member

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    Dacious, my buddy has an old school tube tester and be determined about half the tubes need to be replaced.

    from what I've read all the older Marshall JM series amps used Gold Lion tubes?

    Seems like tubestore is recommending Tung-Sol brand for this amp

    also says there's a Rectifier tube, but on the schematic and actual amp, I only see 6L6, 12AX7 and 12AXT
     
  7. Bowpickins

    Bowpickins Tele-Meister

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    I haven't tried jumping them together while playing live, but at home, running them together, I get an out-of-phase tone with the resulting tone.

    I do run both, my fiddle and guitar into the same amp. Fiddle goes into input #2 of the normal side of my fender amps, and guitar goes into input #1 of the vibrato channel. Makes switching instruments much easier, rather than switching out cables. :)
     
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  8. johnnylaw

    johnnylaw Tele-Afflicted

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    Only one of the coolest amps ever. And not likely to get pinched at a gig unless the crook brings a crew.
    A buddy of mine has one. Its the size of a refrigerator, and the weight of two. But if you like a clean tone...
     
  9. Jon Snell

    Jon Snell Tele-Meister

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    I would recommend staying with Svetlana or Soviet 6L6GCs, don't use KTanything or even EL34s as the heater current will destroy the mains transformer!
     
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  10. Modman68

    Modman68 Tele-Holic

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    I played one of these once at a friends.

    I had it on 3 with a hollow body with flat wounds.

    Holy crap... it made a twin sound like a pignose on 10


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  11. JeffBro

    JeffBro TDPRI Member

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    not sure about doing the caps, my buddy knows a lot about this stuff and kinda indicated they still work fine and sorta scared me out of doing it myself... I know you need to bleed them and then they are safe to swap out... I'll ask him if he has time to help

    my Cab is rate 8ohms with dual input (4 speakers)... would I need an ohm meter to check all that stuff?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  12. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    I'm sure your buddies a nice guy but he's wrong about not replacing the electrolytics.
    Do what Wally said in his post. I'd just tell you the same thing.
    Also don't put much stock in a tube tester. Unless it's an end unit that's been celebrated its about worthless. Mine tells me if a tube is completely dead or probably won't hurt an amp. Really only use it for tubes I know nothing about. If they're in an amp and working then subbing in a know good tube tells me all I need to know.

    A multi meter is something you can buy cheap and should. You don't need a Fluke, they're really good but you can get by with one that costs 30 bucks and probably less.
    If this is stock it should have the same 4 ohm output transformer as a Twin Reverb. (because it is a Twin Reverb) Google "fender transformer codes" and see what your's is to be sure.
     
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  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Jeff, having heard many, many ‘before and after’ results, I can only say that I have never heard a vintage Fender that did not come to life after a recap.....many times without any tube changes.

    also, recapping is not limited to just replacing parts. Jeff, you can take this as you may, but 8mho you need a tech with some experience.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  14. Ten Over

    Ten Over Tele-Meister

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    Here is a schematic for a '72 Super Six Reverb. It looks like somebody tinkered with the Phase Inverter.

    Fender Super Six PNG.png

    Some KT66's have pin one internally connected to something. You are already using pin one as a tie point for the grid stoppers. It seems the Russian version has no connection to pin one, but just the fact that some KT66's use pin one is enough to spook me and I wouldn't use pin one as a tie point with any KT66.

    Heaters are no problem. I ran those 022756 power transformers with EL34's for decades and they barely broke a sweat.
     
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  15. JeffBro

    JeffBro TDPRI Member

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    maybe, I've watched a few videos and doesn't look too complicated to change out the capacitors

    the reason why I kinda declined was that the caps aren't bubbling or look bad, but I haven't pulled off the housing to look at the ones below

    It does sound like something that I should do, but I should probably also convert it from balance to Bias, because modern tubes are matched

    found this image on google, but looks like the tube tester he used... two of the power tubes, two of 12AX7s and one of the 12AXT were still good. Enough to run a single channel
    [​IMG]
     
  16. JeffBro

    JeffBro TDPRI Member

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    umm, yeah, could it be that they work, but don't heat them enough? (personally, I have no idea, just occurred to me)
    little conflicting in statements... part of me wants to use the same tubes as the old school british rockers, another side of is scared of destroying my amp... maybe I'll look into replacing the caps and few other things before buying new tubes
     
  17. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Yeah that tester is just as informative as the one I've got. If you test several of the same type and one reads way lower maybe it means something. But a known good tube in the same socket of an amp will tell you more.
    Like I said, I never use mine on a working amp, just sub tubes.

    When you do the bypass caps on the board you can snip the leads on the old ones and bend a loop. Then solder the new ones there. It ain't the OCD correct way but the electrons won't tell anybody.
    The OCD correct way is desolder the eyelets and put them in like Fender did.
    That's your call. :)
     
  18. JeffBro

    JeffBro TDPRI Member

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    like this?
    http://www.blueglow.de/TechPaper/BalancePlus.html

    I'd be interested in doing this... what's the process of getting this done?
     
  19. mefgames

    mefgames Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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  20. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    The tube sockets need to be rewired for EL34s.
    I did that with my first Twin Reverb years ago and it still sounded like a Twin Reverb.
    Takes more than EL34s to make it a Marshall.
     
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