Just curious - I know that Fender discontinued the Super Champ X2 (after discontinuing the Fuse software earlier this year), but they never really discounted them as far as I could see. Anyway - I don't really have need of one, but it seems to me that Fender hasn't really offered anything to replace it in their line. It was sort of intriguing to me - my B-I-L has one that I've played a few times, and I have to say it didn't sound bad to me. It had reasonable volume and it was pretty simple to dial in nice clean and dirty sounds. Do you think the Super Champs - combining tubes with digital modeling - were an evolutionary dead end, or do you think that perhaps it concerned Fender that these undercut the Hot Rod series (i.e. Blues and Pro Jr.)? I'm really curious about it.
Fender replacement for Super Champ X2?
- Thread starter bsman
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colnago
Tele-Meister
I’ve got one and it’s a great little amp. It doesn’t get a ton of play time as I have better sounding amps, but it’s nice enough to keep on the roster.
It will be interesting to see if Fender comes out with a new version or just leaves this one.
It will be interesting to see if Fender comes out with a new version or just leaves this one.
Note that the Super Champ is not a hybrid amp but rather is an all-tube, handwired killer of an am0 from 1982-1985. Fender appropriated the Super Champ’s size and name for their hybrid “X-“ amps with the digital modeling due to the Super Champs popularity in the market. One should always use the suffix for the digital hybrids so as not to cause confusion…imho.
Alternative to Super Champ X2?? Sure thing…buy one of the all-tube, handwired amps from the 1980s and enjoy true tube sonics and superior construction that will be usable for many years. I have had two of them for almost thirty years now, and half bought and sold a handful of others to happy people. Wonderfully versatile, dependable amps for the home or gigs.
Re: possible concern that the Super Champ X- was undercutting the Blues/Hot Rod amps….different market, imho. I am not a fan of the Blues/Hot Rods series, either; but I would play one of them long before I would buy one of these short-life hybrid amps. Ommv…,
I'm curious as well. I wonder if the Tonemasters are sort of kind of the replacement?
I never owned one but I considered one for a bit. I had played through one as a house amp at a local jam and liked its tone far better than the Blues Jr I had at the time. However, I wasn't a big fan of the digital modelling options -- more for my paranoia about something going wrong with the technology mid-gig. I ended up finding a used '65 PRRI instead.
I never owned one but I considered one for a bit. I had played through one as a house amp at a local jam and liked its tone far better than the Blues Jr I had at the time. However, I wasn't a big fan of the digital modelling options -- more for my paranoia about something going wrong with the technology mid-gig. I ended up finding a used '65 PRRI instead.
I'm pretty sure the original Super Champ 1x12 was a Paul Rivera development, if I correctly remember my Fender History.
The Super Champ XD and X2 (and the Vibro Champ XD) are modelers with a digital front end and a tube power stage. The 12AX7 used in these amps is not a preamp tube per se; it's the phase inverter for the pair of 6V6 power tubes...but in Fender's marketing shwang it's described as a preamp tube.
The failure of these amps (to me) is the cheap proprietary rotary encoder they used as the voice selector control: they are not robust at all, and when they die, there is no replacement component available. The amp becomes landfill material.
I had the SCXD for a few years and used it at band practice. It did sound really good...but they are nowhere near bomb-proof like a typical Fender tube amp like the PRRI or DRRI.
The Super Champ XD and X2 (and the Vibro Champ XD) are modelers with a digital front end and a tube power stage. The 12AX7 used in these amps is not a preamp tube per se; it's the phase inverter for the pair of 6V6 power tubes...but in Fender's marketing shwang it's described as a preamp tube.
The failure of these amps (to me) is the cheap proprietary rotary encoder they used as the voice selector control: they are not robust at all, and when they die, there is no replacement component available. The amp becomes landfill material.
I had the SCXD for a few years and used it at band practice. It did sound really good...but they are nowhere near bomb-proof like a typical Fender tube amp like the PRRI or DRRI.
Dead end? Have you seen the amps available these days? I’d like to pick up a cheap one someday for grins. Typically I’m not into amps with effects.
Correct in that Rivera was a consultant on those designs. Ed Johns had already moved Fender towards more versatile amps with higher gain. However, the Super Champ was a 1x10 amp. The cab is the same height and width as a BF/SF Champ but is an inch deeper. This size plus the added power, reverb, and gain options make them a fantastic little amp…best of any, imho. The Mesa Boogie Studio 22 series is impressive in these regards, too, as is a certain Rivera Amp small amp. However, neither of those are handwired. Fender made a brilliant marketing move in copping the model name, output section, and the cab size for the hybrid modeling amps.
Modern Tonemaster series…..yes, they found a way to mimic the bigger Fenders without incurring the weight. They still do not sound like the al-tube amps which they try to mimic, but some like them.
Oh…and they copped that ‘ToneMaster’ moniker from their highly regarded Custom Shop Tonemaster amp.
I've only ever played a Marshall or Marshall style amp 2 or 3 times - just never been in a big amp environment ( gigs, or the $$)
But ONCE, in the late '90's,
I went into the high-end glass room of a GC, and since it was right there, I tried out an original ( Zinky design, I think), Tonemaster w/ 2X12" Celestiion Vintage 30's, and a Guild ( LP-style) Bluesbird, and I swear, for 5 minutes, I was Dickey Betts and Duane Allman at Fillmore East!
Those pickup sounds, midrange muscle, and dynamics just came out, and with a Gain/ Master Volume configuration- I couid do this relatively quietly - singing tone!
Remarkable amp and guitar, wow!
( I do have a Zinky amp, the 9V, 2" speaker, shirt pocket Smokey Amp from the '90's- used at home)
The Super Champ X2 became the XD. Both sounded decent but many end up throw away amps. I didn't know they didn't still make the XD version. Not bad sounding when they were new. Pretty much the Princeton Reverb Reissue in tone I think. (XD on the clean setting) Maybe they took away from sales of the PRRI, which is more cash flow....
Jowes_84
Tele-Holic
The (Super) Champ X- are an ok amp. They get a lot of usable sounds across a wide spectrum. I never planned on getting one, but the used market is flooded with very hard to resist offers for those.
It’s a great living room practise tool - question is how long.
I assume the hybrid thing does not make make much sense anymore these days. Modelling amps have made lots of progress and many people prefer either - or.
And yes, it has absolutely nothing to do with the 80‘s Rivera Super Champs.
The X-s are built cheaply, very visible, the control panel looks terrible, it feels wrong for a blackface look.
The Rivera SC is legendary and built to last decades of maintained properly over the years.
Comparison between these amps is not fair. 200,- used vs 1500,- used.
It’s a great living room practise tool - question is how long.
I assume the hybrid thing does not make make much sense anymore these days. Modelling amps have made lots of progress and many people prefer either - or.
And yes, it has absolutely nothing to do with the 80‘s Rivera Super Champs.
The X-s are built cheaply, very visible, the control panel looks terrible, it feels wrong for a blackface look.
The Rivera SC is legendary and built to last decades of maintained properly over the years.
Comparison between these amps is not fair. 200,- used vs 1500,- used.
Willie Johnson
Friend of Leo's
I really liked my Super Champ X2, but got a PRRI super cheap and traded it in on a Squier Starcaster CV. Yeah, I think the technology in it is a 'tweener that no longer makes sense, like the Cyber Twin before it.
Combining tubes with digital effects is something you still see today, so I think that part of it was pretty cool.
I had one years ago. To me, it was that only one or two of the amp models sounded good (Twin Reverb and Bassman, IMO). Anything gainier sounded like crap to me.
I think the concept is fine. But I think keeping things separate probably makes more sense from a marketing standpoint for their current line. It’d probably just be confusing people with their other options they have available today.
I had one years ago. To me, it was that only one or two of the amp models sounded good (Twin Reverb and Bassman, IMO). Anything gainier sounded like crap to me.
I think the concept is fine. But I think keeping things separate probably makes more sense from a marketing standpoint for their current line. It’d probably just be confusing people with their other options they have available today.
I have one. I love it for what it is. I have a Ragin Cajun in mine which holds up to my baritone and still bites with a T or S. I run a pretty clean amp and use a preamp or a dirt box if I need some scuzz so all the modeling features don’t get used. But for a single 6L6 it’s got some kick. It’s great for practice and I have another amp but if I had to take it to a gig I wouldn’t hesitate. Like I said, I don’t use the effects or clones in it.
The CS Tonemaster is loosely based on the 5F6A/5F8A big tweed amp circuits in that the clean channel is a 2+1..two gain stages followed by the tone stack…format. The Marshalls followed..copied…this albeit with the cathode follower that Fender had in the circuit.
The Lead or Gain channel in that Tonemaster has a 3+1 topography.
If you liked this amp and the D. Allman thing, I am surprised you never played Marshalls. The
Fenders that followed those tweeds used a 1+1 format. With the advent of onboard reverb, Fender added another gain stage to recover some of the gain lost to both the reverb and the trem…those are 1+2 formats albeit with lost gain. The AB165 Bassman Normal channel has an uncompromised 1+2 topography and is a hot guitar amp compared to the Fender reverb amps marketed for guitars. That is one reason why the AB165 o; through the Bassman 50 amps are sought after….they go to those overdriven rock tones naturally. If you liked the Tonemaster, you probably would like the Pro Sonic…same basic 2+1 approach but with more gain. The Pro
Sonic achieves a 4+1 topography in the Gain mode…and then has the Gain 2 which is a midboost function.
Back to the program…..
The Rivera era Super Champ do any sound one can desire from pristine BF reverb to tweeds of various type to high gain. No one other that Fender has ever built handwired amps that can do what the Rivera era amps do…..they are all PCB amps.
Thanks for the info!
I think even though I have always loved a Gibson into Marshall sound ( and do still try and get close with guitars/pedals/amps),
my real life experience just became cheap Fenders ( or copies) into Fender BF/SF combo amps, and stayed there!
archetype
Fiend of Leo's
The XD first, then the X2. Adding up both models, Fender made them for at least 12-23 years, so IMO it doesn't seem like Fender was worried about PRRI sales. I think that SS/DSP technology had just been superceeded by 2 new generations of it. I'm still digging my X2 combo, even though the USB interface died.
JeffBlue
Friend of Leo's
Still rocking my SCX2 head and sounds great.
trawls
TDPRI Member
Someone on another forum said they wanted a superchamp x3 with about forty watts. I might recommend looking for a music man rd50 110. 50 watts, great sound, two channels, 32.5 lbs with the regular speaker. You don't have to have an EV version but they are fun (and heavier). I would love to find an original superchamp though for reasonable money.
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northernguitar
Poster Extraordinaire
Ban all rotary dials.
