Fender Princeton Reverb type tone on a budget? Champ style combos an option?

[satellitedog]

Hey folks!

I'm smitten with the '68 Princeton Reverb RI's tonality and punchy clean tone, awesome reverb, and lovely tremolo, but will have to save up for a couple of months until I can allow myself to indulge in buying one... (not to mention the available p2p clones or kits, that may sound better)

Currently I'm playing a green-board Blues Jr. (from around 2000) and while I dig that sound too, it's a different design and I can't really get close enough to the desired tonality. I tried a very mid-scooped, bass heavy setting with the controls that kinda remind me of the general vibe, but not enough. The green board sounded very warm compared to later cream-board Juniors when I bought it in 2004, not as shrill or piercing, also had more body to the sound (with a subpar reverb).

Where does the difference lie?
What are my options?

I'm considering small, budget combos with 6L6 or 6V6 power tubes as a possible substitute for/entry into the Princeton sound.

models I considered so far:
-VHT Special 6 for its mod friendly construction with that handwired board and 10" speaker. Also priced very competitively
-VHT S6 Ultra (only because it has the built in attenuator)
-Monoprice Champ clone if there's one for 230 V
-Joyo Sweet Baby
-Laney Cub 10 or 8 (the Cub 12 has EL84s and it sounds more like a Blues Jr in my experience)


Any suggestions?
Thanks for reading and your opinion.

SD

 

[Ripradiant]

A comment and a suggestion... funny thing about the Princeton reverb is how expensive it is for what it is. Its a good amp but a deluxe reverb is better IMHO and ironically it appears that it can be bought for less in the used market. Not sure what your budget is but maybe the used market will provide what you want.

 

[satellitedog]

Thanks Rip! Agreed on the Princeton RI being expensive for a pcb surface-mount, mass production article.

Well I remember trying a Blues Deluxe before buying my Blues JR. and that it was super loud and gritty. Don't know if it was meant to be like that, but it was not the right fit for my home playing/recording-only amp needs. The Princeton seems like it's gonna be too loud, but I really like the tone.
Are Deluxe Reverbs very different to Blues Deluxes?

 

[satellitedog]

Also, I'm located in the EU, so the great US used market is out of my reach unfortunately. Heavy gear is just insanely expensive to ship.

 

[Revnelli]

Have you tried playing with the tubes in the Blues Jnr. There's some good info here
http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=131

FWIW I have a Frontline 15R that I took the back off and changed the speaker (see thread here
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/frontman15r-w-mod-8-20-and-open-back.773580/#post-7918728

-It sounds almost as good as my Deluxe Reverb.... It might give you some options while you find the perfect Princeton

 

[cabra velha]

The VHT S6U head might get you close with the right cabinet/speaker choice. I think the VHT's are made pretty well, they often benefit from tube rolling. Not sure how available they are in Europe.

 

[Clarkj734]

Look for a VHT 12/20 RT.

Its essentially VHT's "version" of a modded Princeton Reverb. Reverb, Trem, 12 watts, 6v6.

Also has an effects loop and some other cool features like variable wattage.

Available in head and combo format for much cheaper than the PRRI.

 

[Ripradiant]

Thanks Rip! Agreed on the Princeton RI being expensive for a pcb surface-mount, mass production article.

Well I remember trying a Blues Deluxe before buying my Blues JR. it was super loud and gritty. Don't know if it was meant to be like that, but it was not the right fit for my home playing/recording-only amp needs. The Princeton seems like it's gonna be too loud, but I really like the tone.
Are Deluxe Reverbs very different to Blues Deluxes?

The Deluxe reverb is definitely different from blues deluxe. I too found the blues deluxe just way too loud and harsh. I used a Princeton Reverb RI for a couple of years of band rehearsals and it was more that loud enough but am using the Deluxe Reverb now (65 DRRI first and now 70s Silverface). The reissues are superb IMHO. To me Deluxe sounds better than Princeton even whens running a 12" speaker in the Princeton. Its 22w I think and Princeton is 15w - so while these are not power amps they still can be very loud. Check out this vid for a really good representation of what they sound like.

 

[archetype]

Find a Fender Super Champ XD or Super Champ X2 to try for a while. Each has a solid state modeling preamp, but after that the driver, phase inverter, and power amp stages are 99% identical to a BF Princeton. The stock speaker is decent for the various voices once broken in, but doesn't do well when the amp is turned up. It's got three Princeton voices if you count Channel 1 and costs $389 USD vs. $810 for a '68 Custom or $1000 for a reissue.

I put JJ 6V6S and Philips 12AT7 in mine, plus a Weber Signature 10A alnico speaker. The additional $125 in these parts puts me in a Princeton zone that's very flexible beyond that.

 

[JD0x0]

Look for a VHT 12/20 RT.

Its essentially VHT's "version" of a modded Princeton Reverb. Reverb, Trem, 12 watts, 6v6.

Also has an effects loop and some other cool features like variable wattage.

Available in head and combo format for much cheaper than the PRRI.

This.. the 12/20 is much closer to a PR than the S6, which are very champlike, with some Blackface flavor thrown in..

 

[Darkness]

Find a Silverface Champ for 350-400. Service it. You win.

 

[Sean65]

The Ibanez TS 15w amp might be worth considering. Lovely clean but they are EL84 based.

Backstar Artist are also very nice and very good value.

 

[RadioFM74]

Thanks Rip! Agreed on the Princeton RI being expensive for a pcb surface-mount, mass production article.

Well I remember trying a Blues Deluxe before buying my Blues JR. and that it was super loud and gritty. Don't know if it was meant to be like that, but it was not the right fit for my home playing/recording-only amp needs. The Princeton seems like it's gonna be too loud, but I really like the tone.
Are Deluxe Reverbs very different to Blues Deluxes?

As others noted: completely different amps. And as other suggested: try a Super Champ X2 if you’re looking for a great home amp.

Besides: you don’t tell us what the amp is for: home? band practice? club gigs? arena concert? That’s the critical factor in deciding (or suggesting) what amp to get.

 

[Badger06]

Speaking from experience as a current owner of a ‘68 Princeton RI and a ‘77 Champ I’d say save up for the Princeton if that’s the tone you’re after. They’re really bass heavy making them warm and full sounding. This is why they sound great when playing clean (Vol 3.5 - 4.5 - I consider this to be pretty loud for home use). Champs are great too, especially when cranked, but you don’t have that same level of depth. Just my two cents.

 

[adjason]

You'll have to wait and save up-I've owned black and silver face champs and a super champ xd. They are not a princeton or a deluxe

 

[screamin eagle]

I don’t think the PR and DR are all that much alike. The PR has a different feel, and that’s what makes it special.

 

[Dacious]

I've owned both a genuine Silverface Princeton Reverb and Silverface VibroChamp. IMO before breakup the tones are very similar with reverb off on the PR. Post breakup they're different bit both very good. No modern amps sound the same, although the reissue PRs are close. Look for the Superchamp if you can find one. They're as close as any modern amp and much less expensive.

 

[warrent]

since you mentioned monoprice but your in the EU there are these two kong amps that might be of interest.

 

[Mike Simpson]

Are Deluxe Reverbs very different to Blues Deluxes?

The only thing they have in common is the word "Deluxe"... no similarity in sound.

 

[satellitedog]

Have you tried playing with the tubes in the Blues Jnr. There's some good info here
http://billmaudio.com/wp/?page_id=131

FWIW I have a Frontline 15R that I took the back off and changed the speaker (see thread here
http://www.tdpri.com/threads/frontman15r-w-mod-8-20-and-open-back.773580/#post-7918728

-It sounds almost as good as my Deluxe Reverb.... It might give you some options while you find the perfect Princeton

Thanks, I'll probably put 5751s or 12AY7s in the Blues Jr's preamp circuit to lessen the output.