Fender neck plates: Real vs Repro

[ivanivanivan]

It seems that more & more neck plates are showing up on the popular auction site that just don't pass the sniff test and the serial number fonts look bogus. Researching the issue, I came across this site:

Aged • "F" Logo Neck Plate (Optional Serial Number)

Realistic Relics Vintage Collection • Aged! Style for Fender® Guitars 1965-1970's. F Logo Neck Plate. Optional Custom Serial Number with Vintage Correct Font Vintage Thickness (0.060") Engraved "F" Logo 4 Bolt Pattern/ Mounting Screws Included * Please Include Custom Serial Number Request in the...

realisticrelics.com

Kind of scary. For $30 you can pick your own personalized serial number and you can select your preferred level of distress to the chrome. The font looks dead nuts to me, so the question is: How can anyone tell what's an authentic 60-year-old plate and what's a forgery?

The bigger question...how is this even legal?

 

[Michael Smith]

It seems that more & more neck plates are showing up on the popular auction site that just don't pass the sniff test and the serial number fonts look bogus. Researching the issue, I came across this site:

Aged • "F" Logo Neck Plate (Optional Serial Number)

Realistic Relics Vintage Collection • Aged! Style for Fender® Guitars 1965-1970's. F Logo Neck Plate. Optional Custom Serial Number with Vintage Correct Font Vintage Thickness (0.060") Engraved "F" Logo 4 Bolt Pattern/ Mounting Screws Included * Please Include Custom Serial Number Request in the...

realisticrelics.com

Kind of scary. For $30 you can pick your own personalized serial number and you can select your preferred level of distress to the chrome. The font looks dead nuts to me, so the question is: How can anyone tell what's an authentic 60-year-old plate and what's a forgery?

The bigger question...how is this even legal?

It's probably not legal. I see they are based in Canada, so maybe it's harder for Fender to go after counterfeiters there?

 

[Boreas]

It seems that more & more neck plates are showing up on the popular auction site that just don't pass the sniff test and the serial number fonts look bogus. Researching the issue, I came across this site:

Aged • "F" Logo Neck Plate (Optional Serial Number)

Realistic Relics Vintage Collection • Aged! Style for Fender® Guitars 1965-1970's. F Logo Neck Plate. Optional Custom Serial Number with Vintage Correct Font Vintage Thickness (0.060") Engraved "F" Logo 4 Bolt Pattern/ Mounting Screws Included * Please Include Custom Serial Number Request in the...

realisticrelics.com

Kind of scary. For $30 you can pick your own personalized serial number and you can select your preferred level of distress to the chrome. The font looks dead nuts to me, so the question is: How can anyone tell what's an authentic 60-year-old plate and what's a forgery?

The bigger question...how is this even legal?

Well, you can't really tell - at least easily. Metallurgy and tool marks would likely give it away, but not many people have that kind of testing at their disposal. That is why when people ask for verification of a guitar's authenticity, it really needs to be disassembled and many points of authentication evaluated.

Is it legal? No, unless the manufacturer has a licensing agreement with Fender. And CERTAINLY not legal to try to pass off a guitar as authentic using counterfeit parts! It is a little more "grey" if you are selling the guitar as a replica/tribute one-off - but would likely need to state this clearly on the guitar.

 

[Holy smokes]

Weight

 

[Monoprice99]

I don't believe it's illegal, the F logo neck plate is a $ 15 item online with no serial number. I figure they are getting the authentic Fender part, by stripping the chrome that's a relic process, once the chrome is removed/stripped, stamping the bare metal or heavily relic'ed chrome with a serial number of your choice, while it may be indiscernible or deceiving to another is not intended for that purpose of a fraudulent misrepresentation for resale. Let's face it, Fender themselves won't reissue the serial number for a replacement neck just the same, the replacement necks have their own unique & new serial number that doesn't match the original parts. When the concept of the guitar is intended for it to become a partscaster from Leo Fender era prototypes, that's what it is. Buyer's need to demand a COA from Fender. Fender rarely wants to be bothered with their guitars once the warranty expires to the original owner (2 years). Anyone collecting guitars needs to have their documentation in order of they are trying to sell their guitar as anything more than a production model anyway, Custom Shops are pretty much the only Fender guitars with a COA to my knowledge, otherwise one is buying a standardize production & assembly line guitar from Fender. Fender doesn't refurbish their guitars like Gibson does. They don't want to go back & forth with a consumer that may/may not approve the repair. That's up to Fender's discretion when it's under warranty to make the call on how they repair any guitar.

There's a video like this for Gibson LP, that even a warranty guitar, that becomes a frequent repair for issues, Gibson may opt to replace the guitar completely. At some point even Gibson will determine that a guitar is a bigger liability than they are willing to honor a lifetime warranty to an original owner. And then it's a matter of whether one accepts the guitar as repaired, or they accept the offer of a new guitar & they destroy the repaired item that failed to be repaired to the consumer's satisfaction.

 

[Monoprice99]

And here's the thing with Fender replacement neck plates. One can even buy a generic authentic Fender part neck plate like any Chinese $ 100 guitar has just the same. $ 14.99 catch them on sale for as low as $ 10. Fender has no control over the collectable market of any Fender guitar, it's not like hey are involved in the resale of a collectible and get any of what the guitar resells for anyway. To Fender or most any guitar manufacture, a warranty repair is nothing more than fixing a guitar to be as close to playable as it originally was to get thru the rest of the 2 year warranty. Just me, any guitar plays for 2 years, the $ 100 Chinese guitars even have a 1 year warranty on them. Quite often any other warranty is a Music Store additional protection warranty that anyone can buy. Gibson's limited lifetime warranty to the original owner as non-transferrable is the only warranty that has any meaningful longevity and as the description implies, even they reserve the right to handle the situation to their final say on it. Take it or leave it. This is another reason I don't go all in on an instrument valued at anything more than I can make it famous for.

4-Bolt Vintage-Style Neck Plate (No Logo) | Parts

4-Bolt Vintage-Style Neck Plate "Plain" (No Serial Number or Logo) (Chrome)

www.fender.com

Another example of a guitar that fetches big money, Slash's GNR Appetite LP, which isn't even a Gibson. Regarding Slash's LP copy, Slash probably has sold his share of LP's for both Epiphone & Gibson, so much that Gibson made a replica of the Gibson replica. How messed up is that ? That Gibson mass produced a fake Gibson & made it become a Gibson. For all intents Slash's LP copy might as well be a Firefly with Seymour Duncan's installed ?

A Look Back at Slash's Les Paul Standard Copy

For a time, one of the most recognizable Les Paul users in the world wasn't actually playing a Gibson.

www.guitarplayer.com

The other guitar that fetched $ 1.25 million at auction was Duane Allman's 1957 Gold Top, That guitar after he recorded Layla with Clapton was traded with a Marshall amp head & $ 200 for a 1959 Burst LP. Internet folklore is the pickups were removed before the trade, who knows what guitar Allman installed those in, may have gone into the 1959 ? As for Layla, it was sent back to Gibson, refurbished to a work order for dog chew marks on it & whatever else. After that it was a loaner/rental in a music store. Whoever paid $ 1.25 million for it, certainly didn't get the exact same guitar that was in the studio that recorded Layla with Eric Clapton beyond what original wood was in the recording studio at Criteria Studio in Miami, FL. Just another example of the absurdity of collectable guitars that we'be become. at the time Allman traded Layla, the guitar was 12-13 years old, he had to sweeten the deal to get a 10-11 year old guitar. Maybe when the deal was made, that's when the pickups were swapped from the 1957 to the 1959 ? That would probably make sense. But the musician he traded with, dealt Layla to the next player or music store trade in for the next guitar they ended up with.

 

[msalama]

mass produced a fake Gibson

It's neither a fake Gibson nor something they try to pass off as one, because it says "Epiphone" on the headstock and the logo is clearly visible and legible. Pricey they may be, yes, but who or what forces you to buy one?

Nothing wrong with this, IMO. Gibson is just trying to make money, which is what private enterprises do. Just the way the world works, I'm afraid.

 

[msalama]

How can anyone tell

Looks like one can't, at least without a thorough analysis into its makeup and weight. Yet another example of the vintage market turning more and more toxic with each passing year, IMO.

 

[ivanivanivan]

There is no mention of the plates being a Fender licensed product, so it appears they are making a knock-off with the Fender "F" logo that they are profiting off of; simple as that. Seems like a glaring copyright infringement, but what do I know?

Their ad claims the plates are the correct thickness. As someone above mentioned, you'd almost have to be a scientist with a master's degree in metallurgy to determine via experimentation what's 60 years old and what's new. The relic industry is becoming so good that the average vintage enthusiast cannot tell which Telecaster saddles are real and which ones are reproductions.

Interesting that this company above lists no physical address, no email address, and no contact phone number on their site. The only way to communicate with them is through their chat portal.

 

[msalama]

through their chat portal

That stinks to high heaven, and I'd certainly avoid them like the plague myself. But suppose that you've got a genuine and legit restoration project underway and you desperately need parts... what're you gonna do?

 

[scotabilly]

I don’t have a problem with it, considering the price of actual Fender neck plates on ebay and reverb. Anywhere from $150-350 for a ‘70s era neck plate. And from 1976 on, Fender neck plates on had the F logo. The serial number was on the headstock. As an aside, my ’57 reissue Strat neckplate is cheap and thin. The previous owner tightened the screws a little too much, and all four corners bent into the wood. I have a thicker replacement on there now.

I just checked their website and they do nice work, pretty realistic. Not like the garbage, acid bath junk you usually see.

 

[ivanivanivan]

I'd think Fender would have a problem with it.

 

[msalama]

I don’t have a problem with it

The problem is the market putrefying when high quality counterfeits become realizable.

 

[Michael Smith]

I was using a wood plane a couple years ago and looked down at the floor and found this. Do you think Fender will come after me?

 

[scotabilly]

I'd think Fender would have a problem with it.

haha, I’m sure they would.

 

[scotabilly]

The problem is the market putrefying when high quality counterfeits become realizable.

Fender only sells new guitars, so it’s not affecting them, just the so called “vintage market.” An F logo neckplate wouldn't matter to a Pre-CBS guitar anyway.

 

[msalama]

just the so called “vintage market.”

The vintage market was what I was talking about. Should've been more precise, sorry.

An F logo neckplate wouldn't matter to a Pre-CBS guitar anyway

They've got all kinds of fake vintage plates available, so it's not only the F-serialled CBS guitars that are at risk.

 

[scotabilly]

The vintage market was what I was talking about. Should've been more precise, sorry.



They've got all kinds of fake vintage plates available, so it's not only the F-serialled CBS guitars that are at risk.

I get where you’re coming from, but this stuff has been going on for years. They’re not the first and not the last. Some of the famous dealers “build” vintage guitars, whether cobbled together from old parts or repro parts. I think it’s fine if you’re building a partscaster and you have a particular era in mind, or have an old guitar that has replaced parts and you don’t want to pay the vulture price that old parts are going for these days. Back in the 90’s I had a ’65 Strat with replacement knobs. I was at a guitar show, saw a full set of 60’s knobs, they were $175. Today, you can hardly find one knob for that price.

 

[msalama]

has been going on for years

I know, I bought a set of aged Kluson clones some ten years ago already, but the aging techniques are more sophisticated now and the counterfeit parts production seems to be increasing. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the market was actually flooded with very high quality fakes in the coming years, and one can imagine the chaos this would unleash...

 

[scotabilly]

I know, I bought a set of aged Kluson clones some ten years ago already, but the aging techniques are more sophisticated now and the counterfeit parts production seems to be increasing. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if the market was actually flooded with very high quality fakes in the coming years, and one can imagine the chaos this would unleash...

I’m trying real hard to imagine the chaos… hold on a sec….