Fender neck plates: Real vs Repro

[msalama]

hold on a sec

While I'm holding, please observe the following -

1) Fraud in general is on the rise.
2) Certain original vintage guitars are very expensive.
3) Aging and counterfeiting is getting easier than ever before.

Add all this together with peeps buying stuff off the Internet sight unseen and what do you think will happen, worse comes to worst?

 

[scotabilly]

Forgive me if I’m not taking this seriously enough. I have been in the guitar game for a while now and seen many things, going back many years. Then, as now, the only advice is… caveat emptor.

 

[msalama]

caveat emptor

One shouldn't take this overtly seriously, unless one is interested in spending a crapload of money on a vintage piece. However, a prospective emptor may need to exercise even more caveating in the future, if the abovementioned risks realize.

That's all I'm saying here, having bought and sold lots of vintage gear myself over the years.

 

[ElvisNixon]

I was using a wood plane a couple years ago and looked down at the floor and found this. Do you think Fender will come after me?

View attachment 1290866

Leo would have been pissed because of the cost of the wood on the floor that’s not on a Fender body or neck.

 

[somebodyelseuk]

If it has a serial number on it, you buy it and you screw it to your guitar, it's a fake no matter who made it.

 

[tubedude]

I get where you’re coming from, but this stuff has been going on for years. They’re not the first and not the last. Some of the famous dealers “build” vintage guitars, whether cobbled together from old parts or repro parts. I think it’s fine if you’re building a partscaster and you have a particular era in mind, or have an old guitar that has replaced parts and you don’t want to pay the vulture price that old parts are going for these days. Back in the 90’s I had a ’65 Strat with replacement knobs. I was at a guitar show, saw a full set of 60’s knobs, they were $175. Today, you can hardly find one knob for that price.

Many revered "vintage" guitars used by famous players are actually new instruments made by ghost builders.

 

[scotabilly]

Supposedly that’s how Fender Custom shop was born. Keith Richards claims to have gone to Fender and requested they build him a replica of Micawber, with all it’s nicks and scatches, so he could use it on the road. But I think what we’re talking about is people who may unknowingly purchase a vintage guitar with counterfeit parts.

 

[msalama]

unknowingly purchase

Exactamente.

 

[Michael Smith]

Leo would have been pissed because of the cost of the wood on the floor that’s not on a Fender body or neck.

Well, I was building a 4 x 10 speaker cabinet at the time, using real pine boards. Using a heavy amp and a framer's square to keep the box square while glueing up the finger joints.

 

[ElvisNixon]

Well, I was building a 4 x 10 speaker cabinet at the time, using real pine boards. Using a heavy amp and a framer's square to keep the box square while glueing up the finger joints.View attachment 1291285

Very nice work. Leo would happy..

 

[bodevelho]

(yawn)

 

[Old Deaf Roadie]

In my crazy way of thinking, the serial number business opens the door to nefarious behaviour and I would not care to participate in it, myself.

 

[FenderLover]

F-logo aside, Ron Kirn will stamp out any serial number you want. I built a rosewood Harrison tribute and ordered his serial number neck plate from Ron. Not trying to fool anyone. Just a thoughtful detail.

 

[Lou Tencodpees]

I have a couple. A Parts Strat stamped with my birthday in six digit format and a Tele with my wife's. Not intended to fool anyone, and won't.

 

[COOPSTER]

Hmmh…

https://reverb.com/ca/item/85734595-1968-vintage-fender-precision-telecaster-jazz-bass-4-bolt-neck-plate-chrome-1960s

 

[Boreas]

I don't believe it's illegal, the F logo neck plate is a $ 15 item online with no serial number. I figure they are getting the authentic Fender part, by stripping the chrome that's a relic process, once the chrome is removed/stripped, stamping the bare metal or heavily relic'ed chrome with a serial number of your choice, while it may be indiscernible or deceiving to another is not intended for that purpose of a fraudulent misrepresentation for resale. Let's face it, Fender themselves won't reissue the serial number for a replacement neck just the same, the replacement necks have their own unique & new serial number that doesn't match the original parts. When the concept of the guitar is intended for it to become a partscaster from Leo Fender era prototypes, that's what it is. Buyer's need to demand a COA from Fender. Fender rarely wants to be bothered with their guitars once the warranty expires to the original owner (2 years). Anyone collecting guitars needs to have their documentation in order of they are trying to sell their guitar as anything more than a production model anyway, Custom Shops are pretty much the only Fender guitars with a COA to my knowledge, otherwise one is buying a standardize production & assembly line guitar from Fender. Fender doesn't refurbish their guitars like Gibson does. They don't want to go back & forth with a consumer that may/may not approve the repair. That's up to Fender's discretion when it's under warranty to make the call on how they repair any guitar.

There's a video like this for Gibson LP, that even a warranty guitar, that becomes a frequent repair for issues, Gibson may opt to replace the guitar completely. At some point even Gibson will determine that a guitar is a bigger liability than they are willing to honor a lifetime warranty to an original owner. And then it's a matter of whether one accepts the guitar as repaired, or they accept the offer of a new guitar & they destroy the repaired item that failed to be repaired to the consumer's satisfaction.

This doesn't mean it is legal. There is no Copyright Police searching the interweb for copyright infringements. Lawsuits and cease/desist orders need to be filed to shut down each and every offender - and this is a drag on a brand's profits that just doesn't reap lasting results with dmall items. It is a classic whack-a-mole scenario that holders of the copyright often choose not to pursue. They can shut down Seller A, but they then can easily set up shop as Seller B - ad infinitum. Some companies are very aggressive with copyright protection, others see the minor stuff as "boosting" their brand. International law makes it even more difficult for a brand to monitor and protect.

 

[Monoprice99]

This doesn't mean it is legal. There is no Copyright Police searching the interweb for copyright infringements. Lawsuits and cease/desist orders need to be filed to shut down each and every offender - and this is a drag on a brand's profits that just doesn't reap lasting results with dmall items. It is a classic whack-a-mole scenario that holders of the copyright often choose not to pursue. They can shut down Seller A, but they then can easily set up shop as Seller B - ad infinitum. Some companies are very aggressive with copyright protection, others see the minor stuff as "boosting" their brand. International law makes it even more difficult for a brand to monitor and protect.

Well, is the latest Squier Debut Series neckplates are any indication, they aren't etched/engraved as Squier neckplates. Guess it's not illegal to buy a Fender part & relic it, then stamp it with a serial number provided by the consumer. One would have to prove intent to deceive for it to be fraud & criminal. Fender doesn't care to stamp their neckplates after a certain point, simply because it's a flawed method as neckplates can end up on any number of guitars. The whole concept of the Telecaster from day 1 in the 1950's was to mass produce partscasters where parts could make for easy & quick repairs. Fender doesn't care, simply because they sell a part, they got paid & what happens after that is anyone doing whatever they want to that part. I could understand if they took a blank neckplate & then applied the logo with the fraudulent intent of the neckplate being something Fender manufactured. Perhaps Fender is buying Chinese blanks as raw steel, doing the "F" logo stamp & then chroming the neckplate in California. They even reserve the right to change specs for anything else for their guitars. I just see the price of the "F" logo parts as a doubling to relic them, stamp a serial number if the consumer wants. Fender won't reissue a serial number for their replacement necks. I think they make it perfectly clear that they could care less about authenticity at a certain level of parts for original parts.

 

[Boreas]

As I mentioned above, it us up to the owner of a copyright to protect it. If they choose not to, that is their prerogative. They likely can't keep people from adding pseudo-serial numbers, but the F logo would most certainly be copyrighted. Do they care? Is the copyright current? Those are other matters entirely.

An analogy would be bootleg recordings. While most artists actively discourage it, the Grateful Dead, for their own reasons, allowed it. But once you allow it, it would be difficult to change your mind and press the issue.

 

[Grandfunkfan]

It seems that more & more neck plates are showing up on the popular auction site that just don't pass the sniff test and the serial number fonts look bogus. Researching the issue, I came across this site:

Aged • "F" Logo Neck Plate (Optional Serial Number)

Realistic Relics Vintage Collection • Aged! Style for Fender® Guitars 1965-1970's. F Logo Neck Plate. Optional Custom Serial Number with Vintage Correct Font Vintage Thickness (0.060") Engraved "F" Logo 4 Bolt Pattern/ Mounting Screws Included * Please Include Custom Serial Number Request in the...

realisticrelics.com

Kind of scary. For $30 you can pick your own personalized serial number and you can select your preferred level of distress to the chrome. The font looks dead nuts to me, so the question is: How can anyone tell what's an authentic 60-year-old plate and what's a forgery?

The bigger question...how is this even legal?

Who cares as long as it keeps the neck attached to the body. Are they too flimsy or something?

 

[msalama]

Who cares as long as

You obviously don't, but folks wary of fake vintage guitars do.