Fender Deluxe Reverb vs Custom 57 Champ

[Jaysmay]

Locally I can find Deluxe Reverbs 65 RI for $ 850 or BO and 57 Custm Champ for $875 firm.

Lots of Reverbs between CL and Marketplace and only one Champ. It's DC so it's a good sized market.

Is it just supply and demand? Is a 57 Custom Champ that good? I recently sold a Tweed Blues Jr and got a Princeton 65 RI 10 inch, which I consider a huge upgrade.

I'd love to have a small Tweed Amp but the 57 Custom Chsmp seems to be priced too high.

Thoughts?

 

[JamesAM]

Yeah prices are crazy nowadays. High demand and limited supply of new gear means the used market is nuts. The tweed is hand wired, the drri is pcb- a lot easier and cheaper to manufacture those so there’s more of em around. Plus people are after smaller amps to play at home.

Depending on where you play, the deluxe and your Princeton might be too similar. A tweed might give you a bit more variety in your sound.

I have a prri 65 and a 5e3 clone. I love both, but I’m never parting with my 5e3. The tweed sound is too cool to my ears.

 

[DanDII]

I'm a Champ believer. I have 5 different Champ variants from '67-'73. None of them disappoint.

The '50s version 5F1 has got to be the simplest amp ever. The tones are recognizable from many recordings.

Really, you can't go wrong with an older Champ or Champ reissue.

 

[schmee]

I dont know the 57 Champ reissue. But I have had several Champs and they are VERY limited amps. They do nasty well, or you can play in your bedroom. With a Deluxe you can jam with others and a drummer, play gigs, etc with.
If you want a Champ, A SF Champ is about $350 used and will hold it's value.

 

[JamesAM]

Oblig “tele thru champ is tasty as hell” Julian lage video:

 

[DanDII]

I dont know the 57 Champ reissue. But I have had several Champs and they are VERY limited amps. They do nasty well, or you can play in your bedroom. With a Deluxe you can jam with others and a drummer, play gigs, etc with.
If you want a Champ, A SF Champ is about $350 used and will hold it's value.

Please alert me to any $350 SF you see.

Current SF Champ pricing is $500-$600 for a player grade SF. Clean examples are closer to a grand or more for clean late 60s Champs.

 

[AlbertaGriff]

New cost of those amps is similar. The DRRI is obviously 'more' amp but is PCB while the Champ is "hand wired".

Depends how much any of that means to you, I guess. Champs are too small for me, personally.

 

[schmee]

Please alert me to any $350 SF you see.

Current SF Champ pricing is $500-$600 for a player grade SF. Clean examples are closer to a grand or more for clean late 60s Champs.

We just went through this a couple of months ago. Check out the Price guide on Reverb. I'm not going to do it again! Sure some want more, but they are out there. Sold mine last year, took a couple months to get $350. I had recapped it and it included the original speaker and a new Emi 820h. Advertised it here on TDPRI to no avail.
https://www.tdpri.com/classifieds/72-fender-champ.4012/
Just find one listed less than $450 and make an offer. You may get lucky at $350 or you may pay a bit more. You DO have to look and wait a bit.
https://reverb.com/price-guide/guide/4199-fender-champ-1971-silverface

 

[Drew617]

We just went through this a couple of months ago. Check out the Price guide on Reverb. I'm not going to do it again! Sure some want more, but they are out there. Sold mine last year, took a couple months to get $350. I had recapped it and it included the original speaker and a new Emi 820h. Advertised it here on TDPRI to no avail.
https://www.tdpri.com/classifieds/72-fender-champ.4012/
Just find one listed less than $450 and make an offer. You may get lucky at $350 or you may pay a bit more. You DO have to look and wait a bit.
https://reverb.com/price-guide/guide/4199-fender-champ-1971-silverface

Sold prices, not asking. Sure there will be anomalies, but I'm not sure it's correct that a SF Champ generally costs $350.

OP, IMO I think the tweed Champ is very good and very limited as has been pointed out. Whether the Fender is priced fairly depends on your criteria, whether you place value on the thing being an "official" Fender, its collectability, potential to appreciate in value. If you're certain that amp does what you want, you can probably have somebody else's well-built clone, with same or better quality components, for about $500.

 

[schmee]

Sold prices, not asking. Sure there will be anomalies, but I'm not sure it's correct that a SF Champ generally costs $350.

OP, IMO I think the tweed Champ is very good and very limited as has been pointed out. Whether the Fender is priced fairly depends on your criteria, whether you place value on the thing being an "official" Fender, its collectability, potential to appreciate in value. If you're certain that amp does what you want, you can probably have somebody else's well-built clone, with same or better quality components, for about $500.

Well.... I AM a bargain hunter! I've given up on Champs myself. I've had 3 in the last 15 years and just dont like 'em! Never paid over $350 for any of them.

 

[Wally]

Given that you have the BF Reverb sound covered with an amp that many are considering plenty of amp for any application, I would say go fo the Champ. Handwired. And...it is much different from a BF/SF Champ, ime. I prefer the 5F1 circuit. Ommv.
I also think that $850 is too much for a modern PCB DRRI....and am probably in the minority on that. If I had one to sell, I might be on the other side of the fence!!, Yowsir!!!!

The Lage video exhibits how rich the 5F1s cleans can be, and so many rock and roll guitarists from Joe Walsh to Keith Richards have made historic music on .champs....on the biggest stages in the world...live!!...that it cannot be discounted. Imho, every guitarist should own at least one 5F1 champ type amp if not a real 5F1 Champ during their play8ng years...if not for all of them. Ommv...

 

[Drew617]

Well.... I AM a bargain hunter! I've given up on Champs myself. I've had 3 in the last 15 years and just dont like 'em! Never paid over $350 for any of them.

I've had a few as well. I do like them, but with all this said, a $700 CBS Champ is insanity.

 

[Wally]

ive had a few as well. I do like them, but with all this said, a $700 CBS Champ is insanity.

Well, maybe not if I am the one selling it!!! Eeehaw....

I have heard a few good BF/SF Champs....they were all dissipating a lot of heat...drawing higher current than some of you would think of as ‘comfortable’.....and had been doing that with original tubes for many years...decades.

 

[PastorJay]

That's about what Tweed Champs sold for when I was looking for one a couple years ago. Not much of a discount against the new price.

I eventually bought a Clapton Custom Vibro-Champ, which is a 57 Custom Champ with trem and a built in attenuator. It cost what a new Tweed Champ did.

And it's perfect for the purposes for which I bought it.

Even if I am slightly embarrassed about the Clapton name thing.

 

[PastorJay]

Look them up on Reverb and you'll see what the current price range is.

 

[Drew617]

Well, maybe not if I am the one selling it!!! Eeehaw....

I have heard a few good BF/SF Champs....they were all dissipating a lot of heat...drawing higher current than some of you would think of as ‘comfortable’.....and had been doing that with original tubes for many years...decades.

Also my (much more limited) experience. They sound great somewhere above 100% max, what I normally consider "JJ 6V6S only" territory. Last vintage Champ I picked up was way hot, had the L010020 dual voltage PT and otherwise stock circuit. I forget exactly how hot, but I couldn't believe it wasn't redplating. There'd been an ancient Delco 6V6 in there just tolerating it, amazingly.

I keep a pile of Shughang etc. pulls around just to fire up in new/repaired amps. Ruined that tube within a few minutes.

 

[jays0n]

...

I eventually bought a Clapton Custom Vibro-Champ, which is a 57 Custom Champ with trem and a built in attenuator. It cost what a new Tweed Champ did.

And it's perfect for the purposes for which I bought it.

Even if I am slightly embarrassed about the Clapton name thing.

Lucky!!! I soooo want one of those EC Vibro-Champs. Price is a little nuts for that one at the moment.

I would probably try to take off the EC branding (is that possible?).

The 57 sounds good too though. I would go with that if I already had the Princeton.

 

[Drew617]

Given that you have the BF Reverb sound covered with an amp that many are considering plenty of amp for any application, I would say go fo the Champ. Handwired. And...it is much different from a BF/SF Champ, ime. I prefer the 5F1 circuit. Ommv.
I also think that $850 is too much for a modern PCB DRRI....and am probably in the minority on that. If I had one to sell, I might be on the other side of the fence!!, Yowsir!!!!

The Lage video exhibits how rich the 5F1s cleans can be, and so many rock and roll guitarists from Joe Walsh to Keith Richards have made historic music on .champs....on the biggest stages in the world...live!!...that it cannot be discounted. Imho, every guitarist should own at least one 5F1 champ type amp if not a real 5F1 Champ during their play8ng years...if not for all of them. Ommv...

Glad you said this. I play clean or cleanish more often than not, but a lot of the videos you see - especially where players are talking up one OT vs. the other, things like that - just turn a Champ up to 10 and let 'er rip. That's a distinctive SE Tweed sound, and a nice one, but a pretty one dimensional thing to me. Those OT swaps are not usually a clear improvement to my ears anyway, when I can perceive a difference on my computer at all.

They don't get squeaky clean ever, but Champ cleans are where it's at for me. You won't have them loud, but they're complex and gorgeous. People don't talk about 'em enough.

I've got a cheapo smooth cone Weber Sig 10" in my current Champ-y tweed thing, along with 5F2-ish filtering and tone control. Just about perfect IMO. The little Champ cab keeps things from getting boomy like a 5E3 might.

 

[Dukex]

Locally I can find Deluxe Reverbs 65 RI for $ 850 or BO and 57 Custm Champ for $875 firm.

Lots of Reverbs between CL and Marketplace and only one Champ. It's DC so it's a good sized market.

Is it just supply and demand? Is a 57 Custom Champ that good? I recently sold a Tweed Blues Jr and got a Princeton 65 RI 10 inch, which I consider a huge upgrade.

I'd love to have a small Tweed Amp but the 57 Custom Chsmp seems to be priced too high.

Thoughts?

I'd have Jim at Lil Dawg amps build me one. You can actually get a chassis build for as low as $490.

 

[JamesAM]

The Lage video exhibits how rich the 5F1s cleans can be, and so many rock and roll guitarists from Joe Walsh to Keith Richards have made historic music on .champs....on the biggest stages in the world...live!!...that it cannot be discounted.

Wally is as usual correct! The best part about that video is that lage says he puts the volume up about halfway on his 5f1, which anyone with a champ will tell you is certainly not what fender folks think of as “clean.” But the 5f1 is so touch sensitive that it sounds like a glassy clean because of his pick control. You can hear him kind of dig in towards the middle of the song and hear the trademark tweed clipping- but it’s such a responsive and dynamic amp that it can go from glassy clean to crunchy compressed drive on the same volume setting with just your fingers. Love tweed amps!