Fender Custom Shop Vs MasterBuilt

Hi guys,

yesterday I had an interesting conversation with a resident CustomShop floor clerk at Rockinn, downtown Tokyo.

the staff there are all guitar geeks who own multiple custom/vintage tele, which probably cost at least 3-5 months worth of salary a pop.

even though the floor had at least 7-8 true vintage and over a dozen masterbuilts, when I asked what he recommended, his response was "meh". And I thought wow, 8 vintages, a dozen masterbuilt, plus easily another dozen of customshops, and the guy feels I shouldn't waste my money on any of those, and rather come back in a few weeks to see whatever's being prepped at the maintenance workshop.

Kuddos for raw honesty, but I was fairly shocked, and asked him why he felt that way. His reply was that basically every masterbuilt they had in store at the moment were made by weird or not-that-popular Master Builders. He then followed by saying that in his experience (12 years on the CustomShop floor) some Master-builders rock, and some really really don't, and sometimes unnamed Custom Shop models are much better than some Masterbuilts.

I was wondering what you guys feel about that outside of Japan.
I'm assuming/expecting Fender lovers to respond to this though, so if you're not, or feel that custom shop prices are just a marketing scam, please don't respond lol

I know it's a subjective topic, but personally I work and get paid on an hourly wage system based on my specialized skillset, so I understand and agree that high skill costs a lot per hour, and the total can easily skyrocket.

I watched a beautiful vid on youtube, of a young carpenter building himself a thinline from scratch. He starts the video saying it took him 130 or 140 hours total. I'm sure professionals don't need nearly so long, but even if you paid that kid at minimal wage, that would already cost over a 1000 bucks, without material or hardware. And I'm fairly sure anyone confident and skilled pays himself decently enough to make it expensive quickly. Heck, if I had to hire myself for 130 hours, I'd cringe lol

I also remember watching the making-of of those Games of Thrones fenders, and the guy saying it took them 19 hours of laser engraving to get the dragon scale feel right. Of course it's automated, but it also means the Head of Design at fender needs to come back 19 times, check, rethink, enter new specs and launch the machine again. No wonder it's beyond expensive, that dude ain't cheap.

Now disclaimer, I'm not saying expensive sounds better. I'm only saying that skilled staff cost, and that prices make sense to me.

I also see some dudes on reverb who seem be making super dank customs for under 1500buckw, in exotic woods too, but I'd love to see whether they're still sustainable financially 10 years from now.

I also had the chance to visit the ESP custom shop in Tokyo last month. Every single piece of wood I liked (body wood) was marked between 2000 and 6000 USD, just for the wood. Ugh...


so I guess my question here is, is there such a gap between Master Builders at Fender? Can a Custom Shop model not designed for anyone in particular beat something designed for you for twice the price? Are some builders not popular (enough that it becomes common knowledge?)?

 

Hi, I didn't try anything. Partly because nothing interested me visually speaking, but also of course because of his surprising position.
I mean there were A LOT of serious bucks guitars there, so not even a "maybe this one..." took me by surprise.

 

I know right?

happens often in Japan though: most of the time, the staff doesn't feel involved in the shop's income, and there is also basically no sale bonus or performance based bonus.
So the staff often either feels neutral, or thinks they should be on the side of the customer. More often than not, it's a blessing from a consumer point of view, compared to annoying clothing shop staff who rush to ask you "can I help you?".

 

right LOL

 

All I can imagine is "attention to details". I have a couple other hobbies that also use wood and where "handmade" is a big (expensive) thing. Nowhere as deep as the guitar world, but still, it translates fairly similarly.

what I retained most from conversations with Japanese staff is how half of them won't pay more than a grand or so for guitar, but are okay spending whatever it costs to have it set up by famous veterans. Typically guys who handle still-active famous band guitarists.

In my case, I just fell into the hole, so a custom build is something far far away, but some Custom Shop tele do look drool-inducing. And I understand that a 200 year old exotic wood top is gonna kick my piggybank in the nuts.

Right now I'd rather buy 5 guitars and explore tonality then a custom shop model, but it always comes down to income anyway.
Most friends I have with similar hobbies always break down into whether they make enough to afford what they want. Most of the time, those against expensive handmade can usually not afford them. When I say afford, I mean that the expenditure doesn't really put any pressure on their lifestyle or the next few months of finances.
I know if I was broke I'd only have one tele right now lol

I guess the more you play and try out guitars, some guys will realize even cheap guitars play just as good, while others will zero in on details and ways to get closer to perfection. Right now I enjoy both roads. I have a 200 bucks bacchus that feels and sounds dope after a decent setup, but I also cannot deny that my momose with an extra zero globally screams craftmanship.
The irony being that the momose pups are boring as f*ck while the P90 on the bacchus universe is dope LOL

 

how would you describe the "smoked by"?

 

agreed, especially ochanomizu.
I'm guessing they see so damn many people walk in like tourists everyday. (a big number of them actually being tourists) with no intention of buying anything.

what is the weirdest in Ochanomizu is how they advise foreigners to buy random MIJ models, while telling most Japanese customers that Fender is "just a brand(like Mickey Mouse™️) and push them to buy anything made in Japan that isn't Fender. And yet, when you ask them whether they own any of those brands (Tokai, Bacchus, Momose, ESP,..) most of them will look away and remember some urgent task to do. Very disappointing customer service. The only guitar shop I found helpful there is the ESP shop, the staff being hired by and working for ESP.

The most disappointing place is the most high-end guitar place, farthest away from the train station. Those people won't lift an eyelid unless you're asking about a 5 or 6K dollar guitar. So very un-japan-like (and I've been here 15years, speak the language and "behave properly")

 

since I don't remotely have the skills to properly showcase a guitar, especially not a Custom grade, I let the staff's fingers speak for themselves lol

I wouldn't buy anything because of what the staff said about it, but it is interesting to hear opinions from people who spend their work time handling 5 to 20K guitars, and who own a couple 10K guitars on their own.

Most people have warned me that non-fender customs will lose at least half the value upon resale, and I find myself surprised at the number of custom-builts that end up on the 2nd hand market. You'd assume a perfect specs guitar would be the one you keep (after spending 8-10grands on it) but I guess most of those are either people who stretched their budget to make it happen, or have enough money that it doesn't really matter.

I do wish Fender customs would lose a tad more value though, I bet there would be more sales. 5K for a second custom is still a choking-sound price for me right now.