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Fender amp advice needed.

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Ironwolf, Oct 17, 2016.

  1. Whoa Tele

    Whoa Tele Friend of Leo's

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    I used to own a Blues Jr. And a Blues deluxe. I didn't really think the amps sounded similar. As I recall the BD had a darker tone. You might actually like the 68 Custom Princeton. It doesn't sound as boxey as the BJ. Also, sweetwater has a tweed 65 Princeton with a 12 inch canabis Rex. It is covered in lacquered tweed as well. The CRex is a pretty good speaker for a blackface Princeton IMHO as is softens the top end and adds a little body to the sound. Good Luck
     
  2. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    The science of Physics isn't hypothetical, but when you apply any scientific method to an experiment, you make an educated guess ... a supposition.

    Set up an experiment to measure dBs produced by identical amplifiers under identical conditions with only one variable. You expect a result based on previous data obtained by earlier experiments.

    Set up an experiment to arrive at a subjective interpretation of loudness by different amps. The information established by the tests described above don't apply. Too many variables. You can suggest a hypothesis ... that the result will be identical. It wouldn't be.


    Hypothetical
    [ˌhīpəˈTHedək(ə)l]
    ADJECTIVE
    1. of, based on, or serving as a hypothesis
    Hypothesis
    [hīˈpäTHəsəs]
    NOUN
    1. a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation
    My point, Southpaw, is that tests that measure sound pressure with instruments like a dB meter don't always predict the results of real life comparisons under conditions that are vastly different than the initial experiments.

    I'm communicating this to you so you'll know, I'm making a point regarding comparing two popular models of guitar amp, not a point debating the merits of established data derived by lab tests that didn't involve these amps, and I submit that the results of those tests don't necessarily predict the SUBJECTIVE PERCEIVED LOUDNESS of one amp vs another under conditions of actual use.

    If you're that interested in Physics, you'll understand what I'm saying. It's only important to anyone who cares about the practical use of actual amplifiers to produce music.
     
  3. Southpaw Tele

    Southpaw Tele Friend of Leo's

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    I teach chemistry and you went from, "come on dude, physics is hypothetical" (I'm paraphrasing) to rippimg off material from a Physics textbook in two posts. Also, I teach my students to never use "educated guess" as a definition for a hypothesis. It sounds like you're shooting in the dark when the word guess comes into play, which is what you're saying the OP should do, I guess. And you never addressed the tone sucking behavior of those parakeets.
     
  4. FrancoisVillon

    FrancoisVillon Tele-Meister

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    I strongly recommend not hiring a builder you don't know from recommendations you have been given from forum members. All you need to hang a shingle on TDPRI is a reservoir of hot air. If you decide to commission an amp from a builder, pick someone with a public reputation to protect, e.g., Allen, Goodsell, Victoria, Keedy. Most importantly: get a deadline and a guarantee.

    Look carefully at the used market for a quality amp before you hire a "forum expert" or risk learning the hard way, as I did.
     
  5. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    They just pucker up, and...
     
  6. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    You aren't paraphrasing. I have a simple point. It doesn't relate to Physics text books ... and I've never challenged Physics, or acoustic science ... ; but to digress: kindly either quote me accurately, or stop ascribing statement to me that I never made. That's not a very clever debate skill from a teacher.

    Since you're a teacher, maybe you'll understand a simple contrast: Frodebro said two separate things in the same sentence ... that a ten times wattage increase nets a 3 dB volume increase. At the same time, he said, "The difference in volume between 15 watts and 40 would be barely noticeable ..." This addresses the volume difference between a Blues Jr and a Blues Deluxe. (Later he clarifies that he meant "all things being equal" and that different amps might be louder or quieter than that axiom predicts because of differences in the amp.)

    frodebro:
    "In your example, all things were not equal. Two different circuits, with two different preamplifier driving the power sections. Most likely different signal levels coming off of the preamps as well."

    Frodebro has agreed with me .. that in comparing real life amplifiers, all things aren't equal ... circuits are different, speaker efficiencies are different, cabinet sizes vary. Unfortunately, like you, he seems to not want to discern that I never challenged that in controlled conditions, all things being equal, it takes a ten-fold increase in wattage to affect a 3 dB increase in volume.

    That's easy enough to separate from parakeets. I'll restate that for your convenience. You don't need to paraphrase it, here it is:

    "1. It takes a ten-fold increase in wattage to affect a 3 dB increase in volume, all things being equal. 2. The comparison between the volume of a Blues Jr and a Blues Deluxe illustrates that one amp is significantly louder than the other.
    3. Therefore, it is incorrect to state that: The difference in volume between 15 watts and 40 would be barely noticeable when referencing the Blues Jr and the Blues Deluxe.

    If you disagree with that, tell me when you've dimed both amps and could barely notice a difference in volume. I suggest anyone who hasn't played both those amps at full volume is in no position to establish that the difference in their volumes is barely noticeable. You can quote that ... but please don't paraphrase it, I wrote it down simply for you.

    If you can't hear the difference in volume between these two amps, then we simply disagree about perceived loudness. Also, maybe schedule an appointment with an audiologist, for your own well-being.
     
  7. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I think you misread my post. Doubling the wattage results in a 3dB increase in volume, to double the volume requires ten times the wattage.

    Either way, we're just running in circles at this point and adding nothing to this thread except entertainment for everybody else.
     
  8. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    I did misstate your point. I should have said that to double the volume requires a ten-fold increase in wattage. I apologize for the error. Will you concede that the two theories (which I grant are sound and accurate) you articulated don't fully address the volume difference between the Fender Blues Jr and the Fender Blues Deluxe? Because, at that point, I'd be ready to shake hands and toast your health with a Thanksgiving aperitif.
     
  9. Beachbum

    Beachbum Friend of Leo's

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    I know you're looking for tube but I'm gonna throw this out there anyway. I bought this for home use and fully expected to be disappointed. Got it home, plugged in a reverb through the effects loop, ran an EQ through the front end to give it about a 10 db boost and found a fair share of very credible Fender Tweed. I've got a Twin a Mesa Express and a Blues Junior and this little thing still pleases me a lot. $99, nice tones and more money for beer.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Manolian

    Manolian Tele-Meister

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    Super champ XD
     
  11. CV Jee Beez

    CV Jee Beez Tele-Holic

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    The bassbreaker 7 watt 1x10 is great for bedroom volume tones.
     
  12. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Absolutely! Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, and may you run out of leftovers before you get sick of turkey sandwiches! :D
     
  13. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Wait. What kind of tone do master volume suck and how?
     
  14. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Master volumes kill the Fletcher-Munson effect by making the amp quieter.
     
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