Fender 65 Pro Reverb 2x10 Conversion.

[rossvanuatu]

Hi all,

I am a proud owner of a 1965/66 Fender Pro Reverb. It's an excellent amp, however it has what I can only assume are the original Oxford 12L5's in it and I'd like to keep them safe as I'm gigging with this amp.

After doing a bit of reading on speaker upgrades, I keep seeing people vouch for the Vibrolux reverb particularly with reference to the 2 x 10 speaker configuration and how well it works with an ES-335, which just so happens to be my main guitar.

This begs the question - would it be worth trying 10" speakers using a 12" to 10" baffle converter ring such as the ones sold by Mojotone in my Pro Reverb?

Would there be any downside to using these converters for long term applications, i.e will they develop rattles or affect the tone at all?

Also, would there be any other negative repercussions of dropping down to 10" speakers with this amp?

Lastly, I've also been considering trying a modern Jensen C12N and C12Q combination if the 2 x 10 option isn't viable, however I've read mixed opinions on whether or not it's safe to use a pair of 35W speakers in a 40W amp with the general consensus being that if you crank the amp you'll certainly be risking going well above 40W and doing some damage. My amp tech has told me that my Pro Reverb was sitting below 40W, I believe he may have said 35W with its current setup (I believe it has a different rectifier tube), but I'm not sure how much difference that really makes when you're cranking it.

Thanks in advance!

 

[dannyh]

I'm sure 10's would sound fine, maybe great even, but I like the Pro Reverb as designed, personally. Seems like a lot of work for not that much advantage to me. Might try your 335 through a Vlux first and see if you hear any improvement.

Second question...so the Jensens are each 35 watt speakers? They should be fine in a Pro, that's 70 watts of handling power (or thereabouts).

 

[Axis29]

Being a guy who loves 2x10 set ups, I find the biggest difference between 10's and 12's (in a very, very , very general kinda description), 10's tend to be slightly tighter, especially in the bass frets. It's not night and day, but depending on what speaker you pick, it could be?

The disadvantage I see is the those rings add weight... But, that's probably the only thing I can think of...

I used a C10R and P10R with a '63 Vibroverb for about a decade. (I replaced them with some Weber P10Q's. Haven't had enough saddle time with that amp to give a report).

Two 35 watt speakers with a 40 watt amp is usually fine. I would expect that those Jensens will be fine with that amp. Honestly, I'm more worried about the P10Q's (they got blown in a '69 Vibrolux Reverb at 35 watts) with my Vibroverb.


I will say that I prefer 10's. But, I am never disappointed with 2 12's either. I run a pair of 12" neo speakers in my '58 Twin. I like mixing speakers, and in this amp, I mixed a Jensen 12-100 with a Celestion Neo Creamback. The Twin is thump, it hits you hard in the chest. Part of it is the huge transformer, and 80 watts of push. But, part of it is the 12's. I don't think 2 10's would be anywhere near as heavy hitting?

Anyway, mixing speakers is good. The two Jensens you mention are fine speakers (although, I'm sure there are number of folks lining up to bash them a bit! LOL)

I honestly have no long term experience with a Pro Reverb. I have no idea what one would sound like with 2 10" speakers. But, I cannot imagine it would be a terrible experiment. (If you want to buy some used Jensens, I do have a few I need to get rid of... I need to resist them one of these days. LOL)

 

[trappemann]

My $.02 Sounds weird, but I would try a set of neo 12s with a higher rating. First, I put a set of Celestion Century @60 watts each into my 66 Twin reverb and what a difference my back felt! Second, the higher wattage rating tightened up my low string response. Only diff was that I had to drill the speaker edge to fit the fender format, which took all of 5 minutes with a magnet next to the drill bit to pick up the chips.

Put the same speaker into my 66 Deluxe Reverb and ...Oh yes!

I like headroom, big bottom, clean-cleans and a pedal for OD.

 

[trappemann]

Being a guy who loves 2x10 set ups, I find the biggest difference between 10's and 12's (in a very, very , very general kinda description), 10's tend to be slightly tighter, especially in the bass frets. It's not night and day, but depending on what speaker you pick, it could be?

The disadvantage I see is the those rings add weight... But, that's probably the only thing I can think of...

I used a C10R and P10R with a '63 Vibroverb for about a decade. (I replaced them with some Weber P10Q's. Haven't had enough saddle time with that amp to give a report).

Two 35 watt speakers with a 40 watt amp is usually fine. I would expect that those Jensens will be fine with that amp. Honestly, I'm more worried about the P10Q's (they got blown in a '69 Vibrolux Reverb at 35 watts) with my Vibroverb.


I will say that I prefer 10's. But, I am never disappointed with 2 12's either. I run a pair of 12" neo speakers in my '58 Twin. I like mixing speakers, and in this amp, I mixed a Jensen 12-100 with a Celestion Neo Creamback. The Twin is thump, it hits you hard in the chest. Part of it is the huge transformer, and 80 watts of push. But, part of it is the 12's. I don't think 2 10's would be anywhere near as heavy hitting?

Anyway, mixing speakers is good. The two Jensens you mention are fine speakers (although, I'm sure there are number of folks lining up to bash them a bit! LOL)

I honestly have no long term experience with a Pro Reverb. I have no idea what one would sound like with 2 10" speakers. But, I cannot imagine it would be a terrible experiment. (If you want to buy some used Jensens, I do have a few I need to get rid of... I need to resist them one of these days. LOL)

Do you have a 10" Jensen for a 65/66 princeton?

 

[2L man]

Italian Jensens are useable only for about half their power rating so two C12Q-coil speakers are not powerful enough for 40W amp if you play loud. Perhaps they do not burn but they do not sound good anymore if you dime your amp. Two -N coil speakers is minimum what I would use.

C12N RI has nasty sweetness which you like or not but if amp has good EQ or you use EQ pedal it is good speaker for fenders. I like it for marshally amps too for blues.

 

[rossvanuatu]

Being a guy who loves 2x10 set ups, I find the biggest difference between 10's and 12's (in a very, very , very general kinda description), 10's tend to be slightly tighter, especially in the bass frets. It's not night and day, but depending on what speaker you pick, it could be?

The disadvantage I see is the those rings add weight... But, that's probably the only thing I can think of...

I used a C10R and P10R with a '63 Vibroverb for about a decade. (I replaced them with some Weber P10Q's. Haven't had enough saddle time with that amp to give a report).

Two 35 watt speakers with a 40 watt amp is usually fine. I would expect that those Jensens will be fine with that amp. Honestly, I'm more worried about the P10Q's (they got blown in a '69 Vibrolux Reverb at 35 watts) with my Vibroverb.


I will say that I prefer 10's. But, I am never disappointed with 2 12's either. I run a pair of 12" neo speakers in my '58 Twin. I like mixing speakers, and in this amp, I mixed a Jensen 12-100 with a Celestion Neo Creamback. The Twin is thump, it hits you hard in the chest. Part of it is the huge transformer, and 80 watts of push. But, part of it is the 12's. I don't think 2 10's would be anywhere near as heavy hitting?

Anyway, mixing speakers is good. The two Jensens you mention are fine speakers (although, I'm sure there are number of folks lining up to bash them a bit! LOL)

I honestly have no long term experience with a Pro Reverb. I have no idea what one would sound like with 2 10" speakers. But, I cannot imagine it would be a terrible experiment. (If you want to buy some used Jensens, I do have a few I need to get rid of... I need to resist them one of these days. LOL)

Thanks for the detailed response Axis29, you nailed it in covering every one of my questions and gave some valuable advice too!

I was actually going to mention C10Q as the 10" speaker I was going to trial, but my post was already pretty lengthy. Based on your advice, it sounds like Jensen don't have anything in their "vintage" style offerings suitable for a 40W 2x10, because I was thinking if the C10Q didn't cut it at 35W the P10Q might at 40W?

Do you think the age of the P10Q's in your '69 Vibrolux had anything to do with them giving up, or would it have been the result of them simply not having the power handling for a cranked amp from the beginning?

 

[63 vibroverb]

I definitely enjoy 2x10 amps - I own a Prosonic and 63 Vibroverb. However, in a roundabout way, I’ve come to the realization that 12” speakers are the “Goldilocks” speakers for guitar. They’re just right. 15’s can be too scooped and loose, 10’s can easily get too honky and tight. If it was me, I would keep the Pro Reverb with 12’s.

If you want the classic Chicago Jensen sound, go with a pair of Weber 12F150’s. For a little more oomph but still keeping it sweet and American, go with a pair of Mojotone Greyhounds. The beauty of a 2-speaker amp is that the power gets divided up to each speaker so no worries about overloading one.

 

[TunedupFlat]

I dig 2x10's, but if it were me, I'd be sticking with 12's.

 

[ETMusic777]

I have a bone stock 1967 Pro Reverb with no prior mods or work done to it, other then my recent recap of the doghouse caps, bias cap, replace grid and screen resistors along with 3 prong. It has 1968 12" Fender Utah speakers in it, which are pretty good, wide frequency range and good top end... but can get a little bit flubby on bass notes, really only when I play a low G...other than that they are good.

I played it though a Mojotone 2x10 which houses my 63 Bandmaster with new C10Q Jensens in it last weekend, just around the house and it was not cranked up past solid room volume. It was pretty much what you would expect....same tonal characteristics, just tighter and more focused with less bottom end. The Jensens also have more midrange than the Utahs.

The Pro cranked past 5 is scooped and by 10 is very scooped and gnarly sounding with a big bottom end, kinda Bassman like but looser. I think the 2x10 is not a bad option but you will miss some of the gnarliness and bottom that 12" give you.

 

[Axis29]

Do you have a 10" Jensen for a 65/66 princeton?

I am afraid I have no vintage Jensens, only the modern Recotons.

Thanks for the detailed response Axis29, you nailed it in covering every one of my questions and gave some valuable advice too!

I was actually going to mention C10Q as the 10" speaker I was going to trial, but my post was already pretty lengthy. Based on your advice, it sounds like Jensen don't have anything in their "vintage" style offerings suitable for a 40W 2x10, because I was thinking if the C10Q didn't cut it at 35W the P10Q might at 40W?

Do you think the age of the P10Q's in your '69 Vibrolux had anything to do with them giving up, or would it have been the result of them simply not having the power handling for a cranked amp from the beginning?

Actually, the P10Q's were Weber speakers (they are now called 10A125's). I don't think they had the power handling capacity. I got them re-coned by Weber... But, I need to do some troubleshooting on the amp (It's only putting out about half power).

Honestly, I loved the way my '63 Virboverb sounded with the Italian Jensens. It is a 40 watt amp and I never had any problems with the speakers in it. They sounded great and took every ounce of power I've handed them. I put those speakers in the amp in 2008. I took them out in 2018 only because I was going to try something new.

I replaced two of the P10R's in my '59 Bassman reissue with a pair of Eminence blue frame alnicos. So, I'm not a total fanboi.... The Eminence filled in some missing spots nicely.

I never felt fear of blowing any of my Jensens. I am still kinda nervous about those Webers. The Vibroverb is more powerful than the Vibrolux (~40 vs ~35 watts power). But, I also never dime my amps (I let someone try my amp and he dimed it within seconds of plugging in).

I dunno... Normally, I am not a loud player. But, here in SoCal, the volume is a different beast. Luckily, I have a variety of amps, everything from 12-80 watts. I won't be pushing any of my amps anywhere near they're limits.... Hopefully.

My $.02 Sounds weird, but I would try a set of neo 12s with a higher rating. First, I put a set of Celestion Century @60 watts each into my 66 Twin reverb and what a difference my back felt! Second, the higher wattage rating tightened up my low string response. Only diff was that I had to drill the speaker edge to fit the fender format, which took all of 5 minutes with a magnet next to the drill bit to pick up the chips.

Put the same speaker into my 66 Deluxe Reverb and ...Oh yes!

I like headroom, big bottom, clean-cleans and a pedal for OD.

I was really, really nervous about going Neo with my Twin. But, I couldn't be happier with my pair of Neos! I now have a magnificent, 80 watt, rich and crazy good sounding amp, that weighs all of 44 lbs.

 

[Wally]

The Eminence GB128 is a great speaker in a BF amp. The Emi Allesandro
g12-64 would be closer To the Jensen C12N sound. The WGS Veteran 12 is a very good speaker in a BF a type of amp, ime.
IF you have Oxfords in that amp, you would want to know two things…the year of the amp and the year for the speakers. There is no confusion about dating a BF Fender And the speakers in it. The codes tell all. In 1966, Fender had Oxford change the specs for the 12” specs to a wider voice coil gap and therefore lower efficiency. IF you have these low efficiency speakers and like what they do, then almost any replacement speaker is going to roughly double the volume. I have witnessed this long ago 8n a 196u BF Pro Reverb I had. The GB128 literally doubled the apparent volume in a side by side comparison. So, before you jump off of the boat, you would do well to know the depth of the water, imho.

 

[schmee]

Hi all,

I am a proud owner of a 1965/66 Fender Pro Reverb. It's an excellent amp, however it has what I can only assume are the original Oxford 12L5's in it and I'd like to keep them safe as I'm gigging with this amp.

After doing a bit of reading on speaker upgrades, I keep seeing people vouch for the Vibrolux reverb particularly with reference to the 2 x 10 speaker configuration and how well it works with an ES-335, which just so happens to be my main guitar.

This begs the question - would it be worth trying 10" speakers using a 12" to 10" baffle converter ring such as the ones sold by Mojotone in my Pro Reverb?

Would there be any downside to using these converters for long term applications, i.e will they develop rattles or affect the tone at all?

Also, would there be any other negative repercussions of dropping down to 10" speakers with this amp?

Lastly, I've also been considering trying a modern Jensen C12N and C12Q combination if the 2 x 10 option isn't viable, however I've read mixed opinions on whether or not it's safe to use a pair of 35W speakers in a 40W amp with the general consensus being that if you crank the amp you'll certainly be risking going well above 40W and doing some damage. My amp tech has told me that my Pro Reverb was sitting below 40W, I believe he may have said 35W with its current setup (I believe it has a different rectifier tube), but I'm not sure how much difference that really makes when you're cranking it.

Thanks in advance!

It's very close to the same amp as the Vibrolux. The speakers being the change. The OT is the same OT. The extra 5 watts is from a marginally larger power transformer..
Those RI Jensens are not very toneful speakers at all though. I would definitely choose something else.

The other thing I will say is getting the right 10's for a Vibrolux is very tough. Been there, done that a couple times. There's an old thread here on TDPRI that went on for many many pages and a few years about finding the right 2 x 10.
For some reason 12" is an easier time to find the right speakers.
Part of the Vibrolux magic is the original speakers. They allow you to play without being too loud or sterile and they are inefficient letting the amp "breathe".

I have some adaptors and have used them. They work fine. I made my own.
A couple of Weber 10F150, 50 watt speakers would sound like heaven. Or a 10F150T for one of them. But the amp would be very loud. .

If I were you and wanted to take the Oxfords out, I would definitely put two Emi GA SC64 12's in.

But if going to 10's there are some good Eminence 10's that will be FAR better than RI Jensens for tone.

 

[Wally]

10“….Eminence Legend ALK1028s for my purposes. But….it still won’t be a Vibrolux Reverb. The Vibrolux Reverb runs lower voltages than does that Pro Reverb…or any other BF/SF two channel reverb amp. That voltage determines a great deal about what goes on there. The VR is my favorite BF/SF amp. Ommv.

 

[SoK66]

I run two vintage 12" Jensen C12NAs in my '66 BFProR. Both are reconed, one by Weber more than 10 years ago, and one by me in my kitchen with a recone kit from The Speaker Exchange. Now that they've gotten plenty of hours on them they just give up the tone. A good substitute is the Weber 12F150. Good sense would suggest the 50w version as the best option.

These amps are really hard to beat. If you haven't experienced a vintage Pro Reverb be sure to check one out.

 

[plexi69]

Get a separate 2–10” cabinet and then you can play either set separately or both sets together. Best of all worlds!

 

[Gris]

I have a ‘67.5 Bandmaster Reverb in a custom 2x10 cab. I run it either 2x10 or 1x12. I like 1x12 better. I have some ‘doughnut’ 12>10 reducers I use from time to time in other amps. There is no rattle or noticeable added weight. The only 10” setup I’ve stuck with is in my old Princeton Reverb. My other amps I’ve stuck with either 1x12 or 2x12.

 

[Geo]

If the C10Q aren't wanted there are the Mod 10-50, 50 watt each ones. https://www.jensentone.com/mod-series/mod-10-50
The C10Q ones although rated at 35 watts RMS also are rated at 70 watts "Music Power".
https://www.jensentone.com/vintage-ceramic/c10q