Fender '57 Custom Deluxe 5e3 Speaker Replacement

[Jared Purdy]

I have a real '57 Deluxe. It has been restored and (unfortunately) needed re-tweeding. I had it done by Greg Hopkins.

The originals came with Jensen P12Q's and I have a 1960 in it. It sounds glorious. A Weber 12A125A is a very close match to the original once it is broken in.
View attachment 1073646

This begs the question: What's the difference between a "real", "original" and a "custom reissue"??? Are the caps and resistors original?

You do realize that if that amp is from 1957, then nothing about it sounds like it did when it was new, or even 5 or 6 years old. It may well be the case that a 57' Deluxe (reissue) is closer to the sound of an original 57 than one that is 66 years old? I sure as h*ll no I'm not the same now as I was 50 years ago!!!

 

[AxemanVR]

And you will also need a cabinet?

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I’m not understanding the question

(?)


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[AxemanVR]

This begs the question: What's the difference between a "real", "original" and a "custom reissue"??? Are the caps and resistors original?

You do realize that if that amp is from 1957, then nothing about it sounds like it did when it was new, or even 5 or 6 years old. It may well be the case that a 57' Deluxe (reissue) is closer to the sound of an original 57 than one that is 66 years old? I sure as h*ll no I'm not the same now as I was 50 years ago!!!

Isn’t that the million dollar question?

My basic philosophy is that the circuit design plays an important part, but that in itself doesn’t guarantee the highest quality of tone.

The speaker in my 2019 Fender ‘57 Custom Deluxe is most likely nothing like what was actually available in 1957, so what does that mean?

To me it means that certain formulas can get you into the ballpark but the real “magic” is pure luck.

Here’s how I see it:

Every electronic component has a “tolerance”, from say +-10% to +-20% for instance. That in itself can be the difference between a “good” and a “great” sounding amp (imagine a 20% difference between two amps even with the exact same circuit).

Alexander Dumble made an entire career out of his legendary attention to detail where it came to the tolerances in his amps. Did that automatically make his amps far superior? I personally don’t believe that is necessarily true, but it certainly does make sense that they would have been made with far greater consistency, right?

I say there are definitely amps that sound just as good as a Dumble (I just so happen to own a few myself ), but I’m also convinced that I got my “great” ones amongst the many “good” ones coming of the same line (it took years to find the tone that totally floats my boat).

This same philosophy applies to both guitars and amps (that they are not all created equal) and I don’t think that being vintage guarantees more “magic” (luck) than a new one can.

So, making apples to apples comparisons with mass produced guitar amps seems like the wrong way to look at it if you’re asking me….


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[gabasa]

The 12A100T would be what I recommend from Weber, I've learned to appreciate the smaller-magnet speakers more over the last couple of years. I guess it's their version of a P12R and it has the same cone as the 12A125A.

A 5E3 I recently built has a Jensen Blackbird 40 in it and it's a great match for the amp. Very open, clear, rich and lively, with a great touch response. Very well balanced.

 

[gmann]

C Rex Will do it.

 

[Jared Purdy]

Isn’t that the million dollar question?

My basic philosophy is that the circuit design plays an important part, but that in itself doesn’t guarantee the highest quality of tone.

The speaker in my 2019 Fender ‘57 Custom Deluxe is most likely nothing like what was actually available in 1957, so what does that mean?

To me it means that certain formulas can get you into the ballpark but the real “magic” is pure luck.

Here’s how I see it:

Every electronic component has a “tolerance”, from say +-10% to +-20% for instance. That in itself can be the difference between a “good” and a “great” sounding amp (imagine a 20% difference between two amps even with the exact same circuit).

Alexander Dumble made an entire career out of his legendary attention to detail where it came to the tolerances in his amps. Did that automatically make his amps far superior? I personally don’t believe that is necessarily true, but it certainly does make sense that they would have been made with far greater consistency, right?

I say there are definitely amps that sound just as good as a Dumble (I just so happen to own a few myself ), but I’m also convinced that I got my “great” ones amongst the many “good” ones coming of the same line (it took years to find the tone that totally floats my boat).

This same philosophy applies to both guitars and amps (that they are not all created equal) and I don’t think that being vintage guarantees more “magic” (luck) than a new one can.

So, making apples to apples comparisons with mass produced guitar amps seems like the wrong way to look at it if you’re asking me….


.

Well said. I'm not so concerned that a new reissue, or any new amp sounds exactly like something from the 50's or 60's. How could that even be measured? Those amps are almost 70 years old and just the passage of time alone is going to greatly alter the tone, never mind your hearing! The only way to hear those amps is in recordings, and then there's all kinds of alterations and interferences with mixing, effects, mics, and so forth.

I'm very happy with my 57' Deluxe, stock, as it is (all be it with a better set of tubes). It does what I have read it's supposed to do (sound like), and it very closely approximates what I have heard in recordings. I have had the chance to play original, stock 65 PR's and early 70's Silverface PR's and the Custom 64' hardwired PR that I had (with the Eminence GA10-SC64 speaker) and a set of good tubes sounded as good or better (to my ears) than any of the originals. Now, it is entirely possible that the originals needed some work. There is a great deal of satisfaction to be had knowing that a new, hand wired amp, reissue or not, will not need any service aside from tubes for decades. I can live with that.

 

[zook]

I have a real '57 Deluxe. It has been restored and (unfortunately) needed re-tweeding. I had it done by Greg Hopkins.

The originals came with Jensen P12Q's and that's what I have in it. It sounds glorious. A Weber 12A125A is a very close match to the original once it is broken in.
View attachment 1073646

This begs the question: What's the difference between a "real", "original" and a "custom reissue"??? Are the caps and resistors original?

You do realize that if that amp is from 1957, then nothing about it sounds like it did when it was new, or even 5 or 6 years old. It may well be the case that a 57' Deluxe (reissue) is closer to the sound of an original 57 than one that is 66 years old? I sure as h*ll no I'm not the same now as I was 50 years ago!!!

Jared,

I'm not sure of the point you're making. This amp sounds great today and that's what's important to me. I have build Deluxe clones that also sound great as do many other folks.

I'd say if you like the way any amp sounds to you that's the important thing.

Winnie

 

[telequacktastic]

I've tried several options in my 5e3. 25 watt Greenback, 15 watt Alnico Blue, Weber Classic Alnico, but the speaker that sounds the best to my ears is the Celestion Ruby. Very criminally underated speaker.

 

[CirrusBand]

I've tried several options in my 5e3. 25 watt Greenback, 15 watt Alnico Blue, Weber Classic Alnico, but the speaker that sounds the best to my ears is the Celestion Ruby. Very criminally underated speaker.

That's interesting, I have to admit I dismissed the Ruby after listening to demos and thinking it was too mellow, how's the top end in person?

 

[telequacktastic]

That's interesting, I have to admit I dismissed the Ruby after listening to demos and thinking it was too mellow, how's the top end in person?

I have a hard time using guitar tone adjectives, but let's go with punchy without being icepicky.

 

[telejay]

I put an Eminence Swamp Thang in my 5E3 to increase volume. Very loud (102 sensitivity), more headroom, but also quite heavy. And I like the sound.

 

[teleman78]

Just to chime in...I have a Celestion Creamback Neo 60watt in mine and I like it, has a lot of clean headroom and makes the Amp super easy to lift and carry, however I am always wondering about how a Celestion Alnico Blue would sound like in it but is EXPENSIVE... I've also heard great things about the Weber 12A125A.

 

[snottyboy]

Just to chime in...I have a Celestion Creamback Neo 60watt in mine and I like it, has a lot of clean headroom and makes the Amp super easy to lift and carry, however I am always wondering about how a Celestion Alnico Blue would sound like in it but is EXPENSIVE... I've also heard great things about the Weber 12A125A.

Not a true 5e3, but I have a MuchXs 5e3(d). Alnico Cream was very good, but 12a125a (30w) is a very natural fit for it. Recently put a Speed Shop A12Q in and it is also great, although not yet broken in like the 12a125a. More mid-forward, though. These are great amps to keep a small stable of speakers around for (they take up less space and require less maintenance than more amps!).

 

[teleman78]

You're absolutely right, definitely the Celestion Creamback Neo or the Celestion Alnico Blue are not true to the 5E3 sound... I actually recently lost an opportunity to pickup a 1960 Jensen P12Q on eBay, they beat me by $15!!!! I was pissed!!!! You're absolutely right about having speakers for different flavors, that sounds like a great idea!

 

[Elwood Telly]

I have - every now and then - chance to play Deluxe 1960 (with re-coned original Jensen) at my "studio guy". It got me to look other way from 1970's Fenders like Quad Rev, Super Six Rev, Twin Rev and finally Pro Rev (1974). My Deluxe-clone is different from original, but original idea is still there - two inputs with jumpering option and master tone. But - the original really worked for this classic, I think.

 

[SoK66]

In my Mission Amps clone I've tried several different speakers. The kit came with an Italian Jensen C12N copy, which was actually fine after some break in. I then had a vintage P12Q in it for a time that was great but the original cone was a worry, so it got sold off. It currently has a Weber 12A150-A which is the bees knees, as the Brits would say. (That means very good.)

 

[Thoughtpolice]

i like the eminence legend 1258 in the deluxe. 100db sensitivity, ceramic mag. affordable and plentiful used. similar to the speakers they use in the blues junior, but at the same time victoria amps uses them in their high end tweed clones. "general american" speaker.

my experience with the 1258 is that you can still be heard in a 4 piece rock band...but you're pretty much playing distorted the whole time. it doesn't buy you much volume, and not really any more headroom. for that you'd be better off with a ~20 watt amp in addition to a higher sensitivity speaker.

Put one of these in an At Mars Specialist and it sounds surprisingly nice. 5e3 style amp.

 

[G Stone496]

Hello guys, I've been in the search for a little bit more of overall volume on my '57 Tweed Deluxe Reissue and since the stock speaker got such a small coil, I've been looking for options. I did came across a nice deal on a Celestion Redback 150W 8Ohms 12" speaker. All the specs seem OK for me to install it but I really feel like getting some feedback before I do.

Does the speaker works fine in this amp? Has anyone tried this speaker on a 5e3 kind of amp before? How does the tone change with this upgrade so to speak? Am I really getting substantial volume increase or doesn't worth the shot?
Thanks a lot in advance.

I’ve had a Fender ‘57 Deluxe for a couple of years now and to my ears the speaker sounds great. Don’t know how long you had yours, but this amp really started to sound better after I got more and more playing hours on it.

Never noticed the small coil on the speaker, but 12 watts of class A power can get pretty freakin’ loud. If you like the sound but not the volume, look into rebiasing for more powerful output tubes. The speaker you have is a known, what you are changing to is an unknown in that amp with that circuit.

 

[Alex W]

You do realize that if that amp is from 1957, then nothing about it sounds like it did when it was new, or even 5 or 6 years old. It may well be the case that a 57' Deluxe (reissue) is closer to the sound of an original 57 than one that is 66 years old? I sure as h*ll no I'm not the same now as I was 50 years ago!!!

FWIW I think a lot of us are after the sound of a tweed Deluxe that's at least about 15-20 years old. e.g. Mid to late 70s recordings made with 1950s tweed amps, and later recordings too.

 

[JPKmusicman]

I have - every now and then - chance to play Deluxe 1960 (with re-coned original Jensen) at my "studio guy". It got me to look other way from 1970's Fenders like Quad Rev, Super Six Rev, Twin Rev and finally Pro Rev (1974). My Deluxe-clone is different from original, but original idea is still there - two inputs with jumpering option and master tone. But - the original really worked for this classic, I think.

Nice tone. Was that just amp alone or were there effects? Mine doesn't break up like that unless it's cranked and it's ouch on the ears at that volume.