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Discussion in 'Vintage Tele Discussion Forum (pre-1974)' started by ozzeng, Feb 14, 2020.
Thank you very much for all the answers provided so far. This is all very useful information.
Hi everbody, I am back with some more photos. We would really appreciate some more information on this guitar.
Has it been refinished? I am guessing it has. Can you tell what the original color was? Are the pickups that came on the guitar when my friend got it (in the photos I am attaching below) the original ones that came from the Fender factory? Any idea what this guitar would be worth in this condition? Thanks.
Looks like the original finish was standard Tele blonde.
The bridge and bridge pickup look appropriate for a '66-ish guitar, or they match my '66 anyway.
Thank you, David. What about the neck pickup; does it look like the one on your '66 tele?
Has anyone mentioned the pickguard yet? The way it fits around the neck pickup looks all wrong.
But the material looks period correct.
As far as we know, it is original but it has been modified (cut) so that the truss rod can be adjusted without removing the pickguard.
David, does the neck pickup look like the one in your '66 tele? Any ideas?
Maybe check for date codes on the pots.
I would lea toward @SoK66 suggestion that it's a factory refin due to that decal, and it could relate to the circa '69 serial number if the owner attempted a refin and sanded the heel plate before realizing it was a job for professionals. Fender would have slapped on a new plate.
Many many old Fenders have evidence of stripping sanding and refinishing with all the parts still in place!
Also note that in that era a musician might have worn a tuxedo to gigs and was not supposed to have a scuffed or dirty guitar.
Some even had to have more modern colors to suit the colorful late '60s scene.
Next I'd say that while the neck plate might have been just way out of order, it could also have been changed at any time since you can buy serial number plates by themselves.
I'd guess that the bridge pickup was rewound too and oddly whoever did it left the cotton wrap off.
The guard I doubt is original because it should have a deeper milled divot for truss rod access, rather than the scratches there, and the squared neck heel corners on it are odd.
Body finish looks a little shiny for how much the back of the neck finish is worn off for those finishes to be the same age, but an owner could have applied a fresh coat to the body more recently, or the body could have even gotten another refin.
Sticking to the '68 '69 date related to the least accurate transferrable serial number may hamper nailing down a date, but the headstock logo and heel stamp does seem to confirm a return to the factory in the late '60s up the mid '70s when more pat numbers were added. I would not hold the neck plate as a date of the refin.
Good idea. We'll take a look and post some pics if we can.
This is how I’m pretty sure an original guard should look, though of course without the modded pickup routing.
Strat and Tele guards got the little divot milled there for access to basically only half of the truss nut which is also I believe why they went from a single slot to the X double slot. Many vintage truss nuts show evidence of being adjusted with the neck and guard on the guitar resulting in eventual damage to the nut.
Soon after like late 1969 the slot in the body allowing truss nut access was also eliminated.
Does the body have the diagonal wiring route under the pick guard?
A ‘66 will have the route, by ‘69 it was gone.
Right but I believe late ‘69 the diagonal wire channel and truss slot were eliminated.
The body does have the diagonal wire channel.
Right so it could be as recent as late 1969.
In pics of the back it looks like the string ferrules are not flush and instead stick out.
Hard to tell for sure from the pics though.
I believe they stopped making them flush in ‘69.
So I don’t think a ‘66 body would have those ferrules sticking out in the pic.
Here’s a late ‘50s body I got with at least three finishes, plus it had a serial number on the bridge and another serial number on the neck plate, neither matching the production date.
The string ferrules are not flush with the body; they do stick out and the body does have the diagonal wire channel under the pickguard. Does this mean the body is from '69 or later? The (original) threaded saddles on the body (along with the tuners?) were thought to be pre-67. Additionally, my friend tells me the tuners have "Japan" written on the inside so I guess they are not original...
It seems the countersink of the ferrules changed end of '66 beginning of '67 so I just remembered wrong, not '69 which is when the diagonal wire channel and truss rod access rout changed.
Seems the earliest reported that were NOT countersunk is Sept '66 and some claim to have '67 that were still countersunk, so the neck would have had to sit unused for months before being made into a guitar with the later non-countersunk ferrules.
Fender did at times lose track of parts or use them out of sequence, but a neck sitting that long is less usual than mixing up the order in a box of serial number neck or bridge plates. Same with pots which were 1966 date for years and cannot be used to date late '60s Fenders.
The best proof that the guitar is not a parts mongrel would be a date written in a body cavity that closely matches the neck date.
I have no doubt the body and neck are similar vintage Fender, and if not for sale the difference in value is less important.
On a refin the value is maybe only 20-30% of an all original with original finish in good condition '66.
Once a vintage Fender gets refinished the value of being otherwise original is better supported by clearly written and/ or stamped dates or date codes.
If there are no clear dates on the parts and you can only determine that they are from the same era, the value is lower even as the guitar is still nice.
Since the value is what collectors are willing to pay and not related to how good the guitar is, proof is what is worth big money.
At the same time as proof is valuable, questionable details like a body with features that don't exactly match the neck date stamp, hurt the value, even if the guitar really is all original parts as assembled by the Fender factory.
I personally like that kind of vintage Fender though because it is more affordable!
It's refinished, and likely fairly recently, too shiny for a beat up body. I dont think 66 ever came clear coat...? Probably a bit of a partscaster and the neck or plate aren't original. Still, it's cool! Is that even the correct logo for a 66 neck? 70's logo I'm thinking? The tuners are not original either. The back of the neck where it transitions to the head stock appears to be sanded very smooth and rounded... more so than normal?
Warning, others know these details better than me!
Back in those days we used to see all kinds of hybrid stuff at Manny's and other stores on Music Row, 48th Street, New York. Almost bought a Gretsch semi-hollow that had a Gibson neck (not a bolt-on) while my band was at The Peppermint Lounge on 45th Street.
Mix and match time...guy comes off the road with a busted-up axe, they trade it in, music store takes the parts and builds another one and fixes/changes whatever. Have a 68 tele that was $280 CDN including the case when I bought it new.