Fender 1953 tweed deluxe ....experts needed!!!!

[Toppscore]

Thanks for catching that 5F3 error! A classic mistake that has been running for years. It appears to be true though for years people have been trying to confirm whether or not the 5F3 existed. Fender oddly skipped one alpha unit in their schematic number sequence when they transitioned from Deluxe Tweed Wide-panel to Brownface Deluxes. If the model was never put into commercial production it certainly must have existed as an engineering design. There are 3-4 other Fender amp models with similar unexplained gaps in the circuit sequence.

Stephanin. Makes sense during the 1959 Tweed to 1960 Brownface era.
I heard one amp (I forget) went past 1961 still dressed in Tweed.
The Bassmans went into 1960 with some 5F6-A models.

So, Stephanin, what are the other four (4) amps the have missing links?

Maybe we can consult Dr. Leakey to locate the missing Lucy and the dawn of Ampkind?
What do you think? Toppscore

 

[StephaninMelb]

Here is an 5F3 Odd Ball. Nicely built amp.

Headstrong released an amp called the BL-112. Headstrong states that it is a "faithful reproduction of faithful recreation of Fender’s late 1950’s tweed 5F3 Deluxe. This is a company that builds amps for Paul Simon Rich Robinson (Black Crowes), Charlie Hunter, Marc Ribot, Jonathan Singleton, and Mark Ford among others. It is also a company with extensive experience building Tweed, Brownface and Blackface clones. How did Wayne Jones an expert in vintage Fender amps make this mistake? Or did he get the keys to Leo's private stash with the missing circuits? Wayne maintains a impressive 10 year fully transferable warranty on all of his amps.

http://headstrongamps.com/About_us.html

Headstrong’s commitment to building the finest new amps is evident in every detail of this amps construction – from capacitor to cabinet. It’s a beautifully made amplifier, and sounds heavenly. Weber 12A125-30 AlNiCo speaker, tungsol power tubes, hand point-to-point wiring."

 

[StephaninMelb]

Comparison of Jettrock Fender 1953 5B3 TV Face Deluxe with Headstrong BL-112 (Tweed Narrow-panel Deluxe clone) by Wayne Jones.

 

[muchxs]

I heard one amp (I forget) went past 1961 still dressed in Tweed.

The 5F1 is "the missing tweed". It was tweed through '63 then a "tweed" style cabinet in black tolex w/ "BF" handle in '64. The BF Champ is AA764. that means no BF Champs until July '64. The very early BFs are relatively rare even though Fender built a bazillion Champs. Every kid needs a "first amp"...

There are some minor circuit changes in 1960 that don't show up on the schematic. Hell, the layout drawing had a missing connection in 1957 and was never changed.


Click the helpful link if you have two grand to burn. Thread has "gone south"... as in "5B3 huntin' in Mississippi."

(link removed)



.

 

[keithb7]

I read through many responses here. Not sure if this has been said. I believe fair market price can be defined as the price the average person is willing to pay for something, and the average price that the seller will let it go for. It seems to be the average ask price for this tweed is high. The majority of responses here are saying $1000 is what they'd pay. Somewhere between $1700 and $1000 is fair market value. Then based on your own experience, come up with a price you can live with. We all have our own number in mind. If your number is $1000 then go for it. The seller may dig in and say no. You can either walk away or up the ante. Personally, I think $1000 is a great deal, $1200 to $1400 is good and fair. Over that, I'd need personal reasons why I'd pay more.

 

[muchxs]

I read through many responses here. Not sure if this has been said. I believe fair market price can be defined as the price the average person is willing to pay for something, and the average price that the seller will let it go for. It seems to be the average ask price for this tweed is high. The majority of responses here are saying $1000 is what they'd pay. Somewhere between $1700 and $1000 is fair market value. Then based on your own experience, come up with a price you can live with. We all have our own number in mind. If your number is $1000 then go for it. The seller may dig in and say no. You can either walk away or up the ante. Personally, I think $1000 is a great deal, $1200 to $1400 is good and fair. Over that, I'd need personal reasons why I'd pay more.

"I want a new drug, one that won't make me sick..."

Something that settles my GAS before there's nuthin' left in my pocket but old lint.

Wait... wait!!! I got it! If I want a 5B3 I'll build one!!!

Like any generic pill I might need to take two of 'em. If I still don't feel good I'll build another.

I can quit any time.

 

[StephaninMelb]

Personally I think there is more money to be made with my Silverface Twin Lite-weight cabinet with Neo speaker replacement enclosure idea. The 50lb Super Twin. How much will you guys pay for that? Actually maybe not a bad idea.

I still have a whole warehouse full of "Emu Oil Poteniometer Lube" and "Tube Cleaner" in a convenient spray can.

 

[Toppscore]

Comparison of Jettrock Fender 1953 5B3 TV Face Deluxe with Headstrong BL-112 (Tweed Narrow-panel Deluxe clone) by Wayne Jones.

Wow! Great pictures & comparison. Thank you. Toppscore

 

[printer2]

I've had my fingers in a ton of these, I've never seen NFB in a 5E3. It's a zero negative feedback circuit.



... and there's no such thing as a 5F3. Next one in line was the 6G3 brown Deluxe. Quite a bit different from the tweed.

Tweed Harvard and brown Princeton have a lot in common with the late tweed Deluxe.

.

Also the 5F11 Vibrolux which is almost the same as the brown Princeton (the Harvard missing the tremolo).

 

[Toppscore]

Personally I think there is more money to be made with my Silverface Twin Lite-weight cabinet with Neo speaker replacement enclosure idea. The 50lb Super Twin. How much will you guys pay for that? Actually maybe not a bad idea. I still have a whole warehouse full of "Emu Oil Poteniometer Lube" and "Tube Cleaner" in a convenient spray can.

Stephanin: So, have you put this cabinet/speaker combination together?
What is the "before & after" weigh & cosmetic looks comparison?
Please let us all know
Thank you. Toppscore

 

[Wally]

A BFTR weighs 57 pounds with JEnsen NEos in it.

 

[backalleyblues]

A BFTR weighs 57 pounds with JEnsen NEos in it.

vs. 2 tons with JBLs in there...

Seriously, with all due respect for Topphat's enthusiasm, I wouldn't do this deal either... I've played a Chieftain, and I've played a TV-front (used to own, btw) Deluxe, and for a gigging amp, the Chieftain wins hands down... That Deluxe has got the vibe and history thing going for it, but to use another analogy, this amp is more Fred Sanford than Fred Astaire... both charming in their own ways, but which one would you want to take home to momma?

IF I were contemplating this deal, I'd agree with Wally, there better be a LOT more of Benjamin's friends along for the ride with that 5B3 (like 10 Benjis as a starting point!) Agreed that amps like this rarely come up for sale, which makes it a little harder to just walk away from it...

Franc Robert

 

[LeftyAl]

Wow Jettrock Welcome to TDPRI .You sure started a heck of a donnybrook here.You got nearly everybody in an uproar.I don't know enough about the subject to join in .All these people are very knowledgeable about amps.(I'm building a clone so I'm interested in reading all I can).Anyway welcome aboard.really everyone is very helpful

 

[Toppscore]

vs. 2 tons with JBLs in there... Seriously, with all due respect for Topphat's enthusiasm, I wouldn't do this deal either... I've played a Chieftain, and I've played a TV-front (used to own, btw) Deluxe, and for a gigging amp, the Chieftain wins hands down... That Deluxe has got the vibe and history thing going for it, but to use another analogy, this amp is more Fred Sanford than Fred Astaire... both charming in their own ways, but which one would you want to take home to momma? IF I were contemplating this deal, I'd agree with Wally, there better be a LOT more of Benjamin's friends along for the ride with that 5B3 (like 10 Benjis as a starting point!) Agreed that amps like this rarely come up for sale, which makes it a little harder to just walk away from it... Franc Robert

Well put, Franc Robert! Well worded.
Toppscore

 

[Toppscore]

Rethinking.
If the 5B3 were FREE, I'd take it.
If it were $1200, I'd buy it.
At $1700, I'd probably buy it, but would need to be absolutely certain
of the originality of the wood cabinet, speaker frame, chassis metal tray,
the transformers & choke, the potentiometers and knobs, the tube chart, etc.

If that is all correct/right, I would do $1700 and then play it and then
get the capacitors & resistors done professionally.

It the chassis is not right, the tolex not right, the speaker not right,
the tube chart not right, then, move on. Toppscore

 

[StephaninMelb]

I have been doing some research on vintage Fender serial numbers. Does it seem odd to anyone that duplicate numbers have been appearing for some of the older units?

Does anyone have photos of Fender Tube Charts that suggest tampering or counterfeiting?

Have you noticed any activity with electronics people collecting vintage tweed suitcases and bulk electronics components: switches, jacks, CC resistors, capacitors, transformers that are normally thrown away, so on? Have you seen people that purchase old radios, phonographs and so on with express purpose of disassembling them for parts? Do you think once a product reaches $2000 - $5000 that it could attract people to produce counterfeit amps? Have you noticed non electronics - non guitar players that have an intense interest in higher value vintage amp details?

Would a person who counterfeits vintage amps be under any risk? Counterfeit paintings are tracked down by authorities but there has been no attention on expensive vintage amps. Why is that? Do you think there are amps and guitars out there that have been counterfeited? How difficult do you think it would be to create a counterfeit amp? What parts would they need and from what sources? Are there any parts that were used to build old Fender amps that can't be obtained from other old electronics products? Can a cabinet be built out of wood and Tweed material that appears authentic and correct for the period?

 

[Toppscore]

I have been doing some research on vintage Fender serial numbers. Does it seem odd to anyone that duplicate numbers have been appearing for some of the older units?

Does anyone have photos of Fender Tube Charts that suggest tampering or counterfeiting?

Have you noticed any activity with electronics people collecting vintage tweed suitcases and bulk electronics components: switches, jacks, CC resistors, capacitors, transformers that are normally thrown away, so on? Have you seen people that purchase old radios, phonographs and so on with express purpose of disassembling them for parts? Do you think once a product reaches $2000 - $5000 that it could attract people to produce counterfeit amps? Have you noticed non electronics - non guitar players that have an intense interest in higher value vintage amp details?

Would a person who counterfeits vintage amps be under any risk? Counterfeit paintings are tracked down by authorities but there has been no attention on expensive vintage amps. Why is that? Do you think there are amps and guitars out there that have been counterfeited? How difficult do you think it would be to create a counterfeit amp? What parts would they need and from what sources? Are there any parts that were used to build old Fender amps that can't be obtained from other old electronics products? Can a cabinet be built out of wood and Tweed material that appears authentic and correct for the period?

Stephanin. Great subject. Before it gets too much attention on this thread,
please start a fresh new thread. Thanks. I'd love to see a dedicated TDPRI
thread create awareness on vintage amp fraud.

How about parts and pieces fraudsters use to make fake Telecasters, Stratocasters and Jazz Bass guitars?

Remember the huge FBI raid on the mulit-million dollar baseball card
scandals and all of the fake sports memorabillia, a few years ago?

Regarding the law, anyone selling anything under false pretenses,
will get nailed by the FBI, Feds, Postal Security for shipping across
state lines (or to Australia), will get prosecuted to the fullest extent of Fender Law.

Please start a new thread. Would love to hear about FrankenFenders
and PartsCasters and all of the little tricks and tips to seek or avoid.
Thanks again. Toppscore

 

[mr.danny]

Perusing the classifieds on TDPRI there are lots of newish amps selling at a big loss. How about losing $500 on a minty fresh Swart? Wasn't Swart the hot ***** last year? Or $1300 for a Tone King that looks like one of their earlier spendy (about $2800) models in minty shape? Buying trendy gear when the trend is over pays off I guess.

The original 50's Fenders are a decent place to park some money if you know what you're buying, but most importantly they are FUN TO OWN, and if that's not worth anything to ya, stick with Wall St. Since when is owning something wonderful that keeps its value such a topic of controversy? It seems to me the most heated arguments against originals always come from people who don't own any and want to stand for the principal that 'all amps are created equal, as long as the circuit is the same'. But they ain't, sorry - it's a different experience, playing and owning originals vs. clones. Anyone is entitled to deny what top amp designers, musicians, producers, and engineers all agree on, and they always turn up in these threads. Bye!