Fat Tele with Strat 5-way switch?

[poboy]

I found a web posting that claims the following is possible with a standard strat 5-way switch (i.e. not the 2P5T super switch):

1 - full neck HB
2 - neck single-coil
3 - both pickups - the bridge pickup is in parallel with one coil of the humbucker, the other coil is in series with both
4 - neck single-coil and bridge pickup in parallel
5 - bridge pickup

Unfortunately, the link to the wiring diagram no longer works. Has anyone tried such a scheme? If so, would you care to share the wiring diagram?

The original post is here: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-60292.html

Thanks.

 

[backmantele]

I have included here the Fender link to the wiring diagram. I have this tele and I love it. Hope this helps.

(link removed)

 

[poboy]

Thanks... but that one uses the 2P5T "super" switch.

I was inquiring about a scheme that uses a standard Strat 5-way switch.

 

[Deaf Eddie]

Can't be done.

It is not possible with a standard 5-way.

Guess again! Please check lower down this post, where I eat my words!
Oh well, that's why my signature includes a disclaimer...

The standard 5-way has only two poles, and throws #2 and #4 "share" lugs.

You MUST use the SuperSwitch, OR the "half-Superswitch."

The "half-Superswitch" (my name, not theirs) is a single-wafer double-pole 5-way switch, with five switchable lugs per pole. It's available from WD Music (part #WDE5DL), Acme Guitar Works (SKU: 003-9003-000) or perhaps you could get one from Fender (part # 0039003000). It's a twelve-lug/two-pole monster, only seen it in a couple of Fender's non-standard Teles, like the James Burton Upgraded Tele...

Heck, just stick with the Superswitch, it's a LOT easier to find. I can draw it up for you, if you can't find a drawing you like.

 

[poboy]

OK, I think I have it worked out and I believe it is possible. Here is a (crude) schematic diagram. I am using a GFS split HB, so both coils have poles in them. I'm not sure which half (treble or bass) would be better used as "Neck-A" and "Neck-B" below.

                S1-A    o-+
                      /   |                  
To Volume           /     |                  
   <-----+--------o     o-+-----------+       
         |                            |
         |                            |
         |              o             |     
      (Bridge)                        |     
      (Pickup)                        |     
         |                            +-------+
         |                            |       |
         |                            |       |
         |              o-------------+    (Neck-A)
         |     S1-B   /                       |
         |          /                         |
         +--------o     o---------------------+
                                              |
                                              |
                        o-+                (Neck-B)
                          |                   |
 GND                      |                   |
    <---------------------+-------------------+

NOTES:

1) "S1-A" and "S1-B" are ganged sections of Fender Strat 5-way switch
2) Neck-A and Neck-B denote 2 coils of neck humbucker.

Switch combinations (pos. 1 shown above):
1 - Neck Full HB
2 - Neck Split HB
3 - Neck Full HB + one coil parallel w/ bridge
4 - Neck Split parallel with bridge
5 - Bridge

 

[Deaf Eddie]

Hey, that might do it...

By George, I think you're on to something there. I should never say never, I guess

To troubleshoot the assumption, I redrew it - this might be easier for some of us to read (Seymour Duncan colors on the HB):

image removed

So, whaddaya thunk? It sure looks like it will work to me...

edit: And on second look, your label for throw #3 is just as correct as mine is. It's actually the bridge pup playing in series with one coil and parallel to the other coil of the humbucker. Whew! Good to get that off my conscience...

 

[ravenboy]

Hey, I'll try that!!!

Thanks so much poboy and DE, because this is the very thing I've been asking about in my first posting here. Wonderful, marvellous, magnifico ay caramba!!!

I've still got a month before I can do it but I will definitely try...unless someone else does it before me and discovers that it doesn't work for some reason. Extra thanks to you DE for re-doing the diagram into something I can actually understand . But thanks to the both of you again. ​

 

[ravenboy]

A question...

Sorry about this DE, I've only ever built one guitar before now so...I'm still a newbie.

The green wire coming off the neck humbucker that goes to earth...where would that, if at all applicable, be most advantageous to ground? On the back of the volume pot or..? Thanks beforehand...​

 

[Deaf Eddie]

In the drawing, you can see the green lead from the humbucker goes to the 5-way, and "shares" that lug with a jumper to ground. In Strats and Teles the MOST COMMON grounding point has traditionally been the back of the volume pot, and that works here as well.

Most four-conductor pickups actually have a FIFTH conductor, it's the bare wire in the lead bundle. That is the independent ground/shield for the baseplate, and it should also go straight to ground on the back of the volume pot.

 

[ravenboy]

What about...

What about the red wire that leads to the volume pot along with one of the wires from the bridge single coil? Does that, as I suspect, lead to a lug on the vol pot or is that supposed to go to ground on the back of the vol pot (which makes less sense to me)? I'm asking because, isn't the bridge single coil pickup supposed to have one of its two wires going to ground too?

Also, would I be correct in thinking that the black wire from the humbucker is supposed to be soldered onto lugs 1, 4 and 6? My switch is a straight 5-way one with 8 lugs on it. Hope I make sense...

By the way, my pickups are:
Tonerider Rocksong 4-wire Neck humbucker (8.0k),
Tonerider Hot classics 2-wire bridge single coil (9.1k).
I'm using 500k pots but haven't yet decided whether to use a .047 or .022 cap.

Thanks for your help, it's invaluable and I appreciate your generosity immensely.​

 

[Deaf Eddie]

What about the red wire that leads to the volume pot along with one of the wires from the bridge single coil?

The red lead (and the bridge hot) goes to the "in" lug of the volume pot.

... isn't the bridge single coil pickup supposed to have one of its two wires going to ground too?

With most wiring arrangements, yes, the bridge would have it's negative hard-wired (connected) to ground, but NOT HERE. If you look at the drawing, you can see that the bridge pup's hot is NOT SWITCHED - it is hard-wired to the output of the switch. We are turning he bridge pup on and off by switching its ground (negative) lead, instead of its hot lead.

Which brings up the old issue of an independent ground for the bridge. If your bridge pickup has a metal baseplate, it's a can of worms to get it to work with this wiring scheme. That's because that metal baseplate will invariably have continuity with the bridge pickup's ground (negative) lead, and ALSO with the guitar's ground through the bridge pickup's mounting screws, which have continuity with the baseplate and the bridge plate/assembly. BUT, since in this scheme we want the bridge's ground to "come and go," that connection to the baseplate MUST BE UNMADE...

On some pups it's as easy as clipping a short jumper between the lead eyelet and the baseplate.

On many pickups built in this manner, that's the connection actually grounds the guitar (the guitar/bridge/string ground connection) - so, IF you find and clip that jumper, then you must run a separate guitar/bridge/string grounding wire from the control cavity (back of volume pot) out to the bridge assembly. It can get messy, especially for novice hot-rodders.

BUT, not all bridge pups have that metal baseplate, and some Teles have the independent guitar/bridge/string ground already in place.

Are you feeling lucky?

 

[ravenboy]

It's getting complicated.../smiles

Which brings up the old issue of an independent ground for the bridge. If your bridge pickup has a metal baseplate, it's a can of worms to get it to work with this wiring scheme. That's because that metal baseplate will invariably have continuity with the bridge pickup's ground (negative) lead, and ALSO with the guitar's ground through the bridge pickup's mounting screws, which have continuity with the baseplate and the bridge plate/assembly. BUT, since in this scheme we want the bridge's ground to "come and go," that connection to the baseplate MUST BE UNMADE...

Well...as it happens, the Tonerider Tele bridge pickup is definitely grounded onto the baseplate...the copper coloured baseplate has a small wire end soldered onto it from the black part on top of it.

On some pups it's as easy as clipping a short jumper between the lead eyelet and the baseplate.

Hmm...so if I just cut that little stiff wire to the copper baseplate I'll be fine and dandy? /smiles.

On many pickups built in this manner, that's the connection actually grounds the guitar (the guitar/bridge/string ground connection) - so, IF you find and clip that jumper, then you must run a separate guitar/bridge/string grounding wire from the control cavity (back of volume pot) out to the bridge assembly. It can get messy, especially for novice hot-rodders.

Run a wire from the back of the vol pot...so far so good...'out to the bridge assembly" - not so good. Where or what do I solder it on to exactly?

Are you feeling lucky?

Don't ask.../smiles. As long as I can avoid being electrocuted I'll consider myself lucky.

You know, as a BIG sidenote, if you hadn't alerted me to this I would have gone on to try it out, without knowing anything about the possible consequences of that bridge pickup's ground connection to the baseplate. Just out of morbid interest, what would the consequences of doing that have been?

(Thanks again DE...I'm getting awfully used to writing that...which is my pleasure really /smiles)​

 

[Deaf Eddie]

Run a wire from the back of the vol pot...so far so good...'out to the bridge assembly" - not so good. Where or what do I solder it on to exactly?

At the bridge assembly, it's pretty common to just strip off the insulation and "capture" the wire under the bridge plate when you re-mount it.

Just out of morbid interest, what would the consequences of [NOT] doing that have been?

Without doing too much thinking about it, I can predict that bridge pup would have stayed on ALL THE TIME, and throw #1, neck humbucker would make no sound - except for the bridge pup.

 

[Jead]

This seems real similar to what I want to do. I have a Nashville Control plate pre-wired, A neck GFS HB and single coil bridge with a standard 5 way switch. I've dealt with this 5 way on Strats a few times with no troubles. This configuration has me seriously perplexed. I know I could just wire the 5 way like a 3 way but I really would like to take advantage of splitting the HB. I'm a little desperate for some guidance. So.... please help if you can.
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-technical/259588-wiring-5-way-hs.html

 

[Deaf Eddie]

The GFS pups usually follow the Seymour Duncan color code. If you simply follow my drawing posted earlier in this thread, and re-do the bridge pup's ground (as mentioned above: clip the jumper to the baseplate, add a new bridge assembly ground, etc.), you will get the combos indicated in the drawing.

Alternately, if you are looking for an out of phase combo, you could try the (link removed) or (link removed) mods - BUT, they would NOT include coil-shunting on the 5-way. You'd need a second switch to handle coil-shunt.

 

[Jead]

Thanks a million - Appreciated!

 

[udimet720]

Poboy and DE, I'm trying to work that switch out in my head. But, I can't really understand what you are diagraming. You are trying to switch the ground connections. Right?

Sorry Poboy, but I can not make heads or tails of your diagram at all!

But, I think there is another way to do this using a standard 5 way switch.

If the regular strat switch is
N
N+M
M
M+B
B

You are basically connecting three inputs. To split the hb, connect red/white wires (which connect the 2 coils) to the 3rd input "B".

So, N = full HB
M = single coil
B = split HB

When you move the switch to positions 4,5 you will get half the hb.
The only problem is the order will end up different.

Does that make sense?

 

[Deaf Eddie]

Udimet270, sure, that works to give you:

1 - neck humbucker
2 - neck humbucker + bridge
3 - bridge
4 - bridge + neck coil-shunt
5 - neck coil-shunt

But... that's not what the original poster asked for.

 

[udimet720]

Ah... Thanks for the clarification.

By the way, poboy, your diagram looked ENTIRELY different when I was browsing on my phone.



I thought I was losing it. Hahaha....

 

[epoch]

Let me see if I've got this right.

By George, I think you're on to something there. I should never say never, I guess

To troubleshoot the assumption, I redrew it - this might be easier for some of us to read (Seymour Duncan colors on the HB):

image removed

So, whaddaya thunk? It sure looks like it will work to me...

edit: And on second look, your label for throw #3 is just as correct as mine is. It's actually the bridge pup playing in series with one coil and parallel to the other coil of the humbucker. Whew! Good to get that off my conscience...

DE:

I bought this 5-way switch from GFS:

And I'd like to wire it up as discussed in this thread. Using your diagram, and according to some 5-way schematic basics, I've come up with this:

image removed
I hope this isn't too blurry or confusing.

Now, as you can perhaps see from the picture of the switch I posted, the two lugs you have marked as 'C' in your drawing are shorted together from the manufacturer, as per the usual Strat 5-way design. I'm assuming I can snip this, and use your design?

My other concern is that my bridge pickup in my Squier 50's CV has, seemingly, three leads; one white and two black.

Thanks you for any help you can offer (or anyone else); this is my first project.