False economy?

[Masterofnocaster]

When I bought my acoustic guitars I tried out a few until I found the best one I could afford.

My 1973 Musicmaster was destined for the dumpster, so bringing it home was never in question.

If I visit the local music shops, or even pawn shops, I don't find any Telecasters for under a grand, unless you count Squiers (and apparently some of them sound pretty good.) There are used Mexican Teles for seven or eight hundred and used USA Teles for double that, but that would mean a lot of visiting the sellers at home, then trying to remember how it compared it with the one I played a few weeks ago, so that doesn't seem the most practical.

So the cheapest route, if I don't count my time, is building my own. So far I have: a generic ash Tele body, a maple neck from a Mexican Strat, Fender bridge, Highway 61 bridge pickup and new thinline neck pickup. Not a big financial outlay, but I won't know how if feels and sounds until it's complete. I'll either have hit the jackpot or wished I'd saved my money and bought from a shop.

So: what do you do with guitars you've made that don't quite sound or feel right? Unless you're an established luthier there's not a huge market, based on the number of partscasters that stay on the market. Just give them to friends? Have them as spares if you gig? Keep them as wall art?

 

[andy__d]

It’s hard to sell a partscaster on: I’ve sold a couple, in both cases I sold them for less than the sum of their parts. You may find that breaking it back up, and selling the parts individually gets you a better buck for your bang (so to speak).

 

[Milspec]

The key is in the set-up more than the parts. I always take my Frankenstein creations to my luthier when finished and let him set it up. He never has to do much, but that little bit makes a big difference between a keeper and a meh guitar. So far, I have never ended up with a dud...some better than others, but never a bad one.

My only problem is that I can't build a cheap one. They always end up around a grand, so I don't save a lot compared Fender and end up with much less re-sale value. I look at it as a wash.

 

[Tmcqtele65]

Brand New for $599 from Adorama
Fender Player Black with Maple Fretboard:

Fender Player Telecaster

Player Telecaster Electric Guitar, Maple Fingerboard, Black

www.adorama.com

or White with Maple:

Fender Player Telecaster

Player Telecaster Electric Guitar, Maple Fingerboard, Polar White

www.adorama.com

I got my Player Strat from Adorama just before Christmas - great experience.

 

[Freeman Keller]

That is a bit of a conundrum. I happen to believe that most of the sound of an electric guitar comes from the pickups and I try to choose pickups that will sound the way I want them to. Body woods, chambering, all that other stuff might have a small effect on sound, mostly I choose woods and construction methods and all of that to make the guitar look and feel a certain way. So far every one of my electric guitars has sounded exactly like I expected.

I have built guitars for a few folks and getting inside their head is sometimes tricky - exactly what sound do they think they want and can I create it for them. I listen to everything they say, I look at guitars that they like and dislike. So far they have all been happy.

I also build acoustic guitars and here my body woods and construction methods make a huge difference. There are a variety of things that can be done during construction to affect the sound - I try to be very aware of them.

 

[FSRCustomTeleHHGT]

When I bought my acoustic guitars I tried out a few until I found the best one I could afford.

My 1973 Musicmaster was destined for the dumpster, so bringing it home was never in question.

If I visit the local music shops, or even pawn shops, I don't find any Telecasters for under a grand, unless you count Squiers (and apparently some of them sound pretty good.) There are used Mexican Teles for seven or eight hundred and used USA Teles for double that, but that would mean a lot of visiting the sellers at home, then trying to remember how it compared it with the one I played a few weeks ago, so that doesn't seem the most practical.

So the cheapest route, if I don't count my time, is building my own. So far I have: a generic ash Tele body, a maple neck from a Mexican Strat, Fender bridge, Highway 61 bridge pickup and new thinline neck pickup. Not a big financial outlay, but I won't know how if feels and sounds until it's complete. I'll either have hit the jackpot or wished I'd saved my money and bought from a shop.

So: what do you do with guitars you've made that don't quite sound or feel right? Unless you're an established luthier there's not a huge market, based on the number of partscasters that stay on the market. Just give them to friends? Have them as spares if you gig? Keep them as wall art?

Squiers are more than just pretty good. You don't know what you're missing.

But all you need to do with your partscaster is figure out what is "wrong" with it. The great thing about Fender-style guitars is that you can change anything. So if the body is too heavy? Sell yours (easy) and get another one. Don't like the neck profile, radius or fretwood? Get another neck and sell yours (easy). My purple Strat didn't come together as a great guitar until I got a Player Plus neck for it. The first neck ended up on a Strat project body and I gave that guitar to my nephew.

 

[LowCaster]

Build your partscaster. Do the best setup you can. Let it rest. I need a very long time to get the best pickup height. Then if something isn’t right you can swap that part.

 

[Masterofnocaster]

Thanks, all. All this is good to know for when I plug it in, who knows when.

 

[hopdybob]

Thanks, all. All this is good to know for when I plug it in, who knows when.

one once told me, the journey to your vacation location is part of your vacation to.

i have a guitar that i think came 25 years ago in my life.
i sat down, played it and ergonomically it was spot on, like a glove.
but the frets were bad and i later found out when i found the exact same guitar, it had that problem to.
this first guitar was my first fret replacement project and it went well, maybe not perfect but to me the neck plays fine now.
then the pickups, bought it without the original and that was not a problem because i had some Bill Lawrence and started with a one pickups (L500XL) with series parallel switch, switch for tonestack with ore without Q filter, made my own pickguard and over the years things went in and out of the body.
now including shielding with alu tape, old L90, L500 curved blade, L220
G&L PTB tone stack it became my legacy Bill Lawrence Caster
a long journey but when playing it is like coming home.


i made my own guitar only bought a new neck
lots of work and found out it wasn't the glove i was looking for.
but i learnt a lot from that build so all effort was not wasted.



so if there is something 'false' than i might be that your expectations could be to high to make something and that it will be/stay valuable for some reason.
the real value is that you learn things and step by step come close to your fits like a glove.
but that is my personal opinion

 

[Masterofnocaster]

Very good insights. And thanks for reminding me of what I tell folks, that the journey is half the fun.
Beautiful guitars, by the way!

 

[Freeman Keller]

Very good insights. And thanks for reminding me of what I tell folks, that the journey is half the fun.
Beautiful guitars, by the way!

Coming back to your original post, you and some of us have listed all the reasons building a parts (or scratch) guitar is a bad idea. I can buy a very nice commercial guitar for less than I can buy the materials to make one. I can't finish as well as the cheapest PacRim guitar. I won't know what I've got until I'm done. I know I'll have to do fretwork and setup and soldering and a bunch of other stuff. If I don't have the tools I'll have to buy them - heck a nice set of nut files is more than a hundred bucks. If I don't have the skills to do what needs to be done I'll have to acquire them. I'll put twenty or thirty or many more hours of labor into this project - even at minimum wage thats a pretty big investment.

And the last part of your original question, what do I do with it if it doesn't work (or even if it does and I tire of it)? Its almost impossible to sell a home made guitar of any style and recover your investment. So yes, it is totally false economy.

On the other hand I finished my 30th scratch build last spring and have been thinking about the next. And I'm planning to give a few away this year to make room for the next one. And the one after that.

 

[Peegoo]

Generally, building a guitar to save money (when you're not a woodworker with the necessary tools/skills) is false economy because your time is money too. But this does not take into account the experience you gain, so there's payback there.

I've done a bunch of partscasters for customers that want something specific; they provide the parts and I mix the ingredients and bake it in the Guitar Oven. I am not a business...just a guy with some tools and enough fearlessness to use 'em.

The only time I build for myself is to prove a concept or achieve something that is unavailable anywhere else but from my shop. Here's an example.

The real truth about building is this: you can spend lots of money for the best parts available and the guitar may be a dud. You can also slap a mongrel together from mismatched parts in an afternoon and it KILLS. These are the extremes of the results at each end of the build approach; most all builds will fall somewhere in the middle. I mention this because:

So: what do you do with guitars you've made that don't quite sound or feel right?

Sometimes a build just comes out...meh...and uninspiring. And sometimes you change one thing and BAM it's a good player that sound great. Sometimes, no matter what you try, the guitar is a dud. So you take it apart and those parts become parts for some other project.

It it a whole lot of fun to build, and sometimes it is frustrating. Most all times, however, it's rewarding.

 

[redhouse_ca]

Generally, building a guitar to save money (when you're not a woodworker with the necessary tools/skills) is false economy because your time is money too. But this does not take into account the experience you gain, so there's payback there.

I've done a bunch of partscasters for customers that want something specific; they provide the parts and I mix the ingredients and bake it in the Guitar Oven. I am not a business...just a guy with some tools and enough fearlessness to use 'em.

The only time I build for myself is to prove a concept or achieve something that is unavailable anywhere else but from my shop. Here's an example.

The real truth about building is this: you can spend lots of money for the best parts available and the guitar may be a dud. You can also slap a mongrel together from mismatched parts in an afternoon and it KILLS. These are the extremes of the results at each end of the build approach; most all builds will fall somewhere in the middle. I mention this because:



Sometimes a build just comes out...meh...and uninspiring. And sometimes you change one thing and BAM it's a good player that sound great. Sometimes, no matter what you try, the guitar is a dud. So you take it apart and those parts become parts for some other project.

It it a whole lot of fun to build, and sometimes it is frustrating. Most all times, however, it's rewarding.

Sir, you really must share a bit more about the ax in the pic. Its pretty darn cool looking (are those Japanese pickups)? The cord jack is in an odd location unless it's left handed, but it's kinda cool where it is. What's the one knob do? I agree with a lot of what you post but what's interesting for me is why we make the design decisions we make. There's a lot to that question, I think. For example, I am lucky to have a couple Rick Kelly guitars. I always like the choices he makes, they seem to materialize as he builds the guitar (but I don't know that, it just seems sensible given what he does). Do you start out with a plan and then excute more or less that plan, or do you start out with a rough idea and then let it take shape (or both)? Do you mind sharing a bit about your thought process when building?

 

[Peegoo]

Sir, you really must share a bit more about the ax in the pic. Its pretty darn cool looking (are those Japanese pickups)? The cord jack is in an odd location unless it's left handed, but it's kinda cool where it is. What's the one knob do? I agree with a lot of what you post but what's interesting for me is why we make the design decisions we make. There's a lot to that question, I think. For example, I am lucky to have a couple Rick Kelly guitars. I always like the choices he makes, they seem to materialize as he builds the guitar (but I don't know that, it just seems sensible given what he does). Do you start out with a plan and then excute more or less that plan, or do you start out with a rough idea and then let it take shape (or both)? Do you mind sharing a bit about your thought process when building?

The pickup is a Gretsch Filtertron; I love the brightness and snarl these pickups are capable of making. The thing that looks like the jack is a recessed Dunlop Straplok socket...it makes the guitar hang perfectly in balance. The single knob is a volume control.

Regarding my philosophy: I know some of my stuff looks crazy, but anything I build (guitars, amps, pedals, furniture, houses, etc.) are all within the capabilities of anyone that can turn a screwdriver and swing a hammer. It's the reason why I mentioned above that I'm fearless. It does not mean I'm a tough guy; it's a mindset. As soon as a person thinks, 'there's no way I could do that', they've already failed. You have to allow yourself to be fearless. But at the same time you must respect the danger presented by electricity and power tools. Take all precautions, including always wearing eye protection.

When I'm making something unconventional, I never develop anything on paper beyond a rough sketch because, as military strategists are known to say, "no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy." I'd rather go in with a goal clear in my mind and work toward it, overcoming challenges and making necessary changes as I proceed.

This approach doesn't work all the time (some mistakes are unrecoverable), but it does get me better results because there's a freedom to make changes built into the process.

The guitar I posted above is actually revision 2 of the original design I had in mind. For details on that guitar, see the build thread below.

Cheers,
Geno

Attack of the headless canoe paddle guitar-like creature

Here's a small two-piece mahogany body with a Star Trek/Jetsons vibe...it's getting Steinberger straight-pull tuners behind the tune-o-matic bridge, one volume knob, and one pickup that I'll make for it. I was going to place the tuners in a line at the end of the body and fan the strings out...

www.tdpri.com

 

[redhouse_ca]

The pickup is a Gretsch Filtertron; I love the brightness and snarl these pickups are capable of making. The thing that looks like the jack is a recessed Dunlop Straplok socket...it makes the guitar hang perfectly in balance. The single knob is a volume control.

Regarding my philosophy: I know some of my stuff looks crazy, but anything I build (guitars, amps, pedals, furniture, houses, etc.) are all within the capabilities of anyone that can turn a screwdriver and swing a hammer. It's the reason why I mentioned above that I'm fearless. It does not mean I'm a tough guy; it's a mindset. As soon as a person thinks, 'there's no way I could do that', they've already failed. You have to allow yourself to be fearless. But at the same time you must respect the danger presented by electricity and power tools. Take all precautions, including always wearing eye protection.

When I'm making something unconventional, I never develop anything on paper beyond a rough sketch because, as military strategists are known to say, "no battle plan survives first contact with the enemy." I'd rather go in with a goal clear in my mind and work toward it, overcoming challenges and making necessary changes as I proceed.

This approach doesn't work all the time (some mistakes are unrecoverable), but it does get me better results because there's a freedom to make changes built into the process.

The guitar I posted above is actually revision 2 of the original design I had in mind. For details on that guitar, see the build thread below.

Cheers,
Geno

Attack of the headless canoe paddle guitar-like creature

Here's a small two-piece mahogany body with a Star Trek/Jetsons vibe...it's getting Steinberger straight-pull tuners behind the tune-o-matic bridge, one volume knob, and one pickup that I'll make for it. I was going to place the tuners in a line at the end of the body and fan the strings out...

www.tdpri.com

Thanks, really great read. I agree with the fearless philosophy. I don't like to be patronized and I don't like it when someone tells me why something I want to do will likely fail. It makes me work harder. One of my favorite writers/thinkers said "Even in the best there is something that must be overcome". He also said "He who you cannon teach to fly, teach to fall faster". I'll take failing faster advice way better than don't do it advice.


Thanks for the details on the guitar as well. I think it's totally cool. I have been lucky to get some really, really strange ones over the years, all with one thing in common: the builder put thought into it, and if you can appreciate that, you appreciate the guitar.

 

[Mojotron]

At one point decades ago, I had a bunch of guitars that came from Gibson, Fender, Parker... but the guitars that I the most back then were really partscasters: But they never really were what I wanted them to be and I started making all of my own bodies the necks, then pickups and then bridges and nuts... On the guitars that I've made from scratch I've never gotten rid of any of them, I keep replacing bodies/necks/bridges with better ones making each of those guitars what I wanted. Now, I've sold off all of the factory guitars and most of the parts from partscasters: Basically, I only have the guitars that I've built from scratch and I would never part with them.