Esquire P-Rails Wiring Help

[Dauminator63]

I'm going to buy a tele kit and I'd like to make it an esquire with a P-Rail, but keep the volume, tone, and three way switch. It doesn't matter which position is which, but I'd like the three way switch to select one of the three tones the pickup has to offer. From all the wiring diagrams I can find they all use push/pull pots, and I was wondering if anyone knew how to wire it without push/pull pots and just the three way switch. Thanks!

 

[wabashslim]

The P-rails has 4 sounds so you need a 4-way Tele switch, and wire it up like you would for two single coil Tele pickups. Each alone, in parallel, and in series. Lots of diagrams online, some more correct than others.

 

[Deaf Eddie]

What ^he^ said. If you can't find a drawing you can follow, hit me up and I'll whip one out for you...

 

[SomeGuyNamedRob]

What ^he^ said. If you can't find a drawing you can follow, hit me up and I'll whip one out for you...

Question: are you able to wire the sounds in any order? Or is there a set order you have to follow through the switch positions?

 

[Deaf Eddie]

Any order you please...

 

[Dauminator63]

The P-rails has 4 sounds so you need a 4-way Tele switch, and wire it up like you would for two single coil Tele pickups. Each alone, in parallel, and in series. Lots of diagrams online, some more correct than others.

I don't need parallel, just the single coil, p-90 and series humbucker. The "P-Rail bible" says to think of the P-Rail as two pickups right next to each other, each with their own hot and ground. So would I just wire the single coil to say position 1 and wire the p-90 to position 3, so that in position 2 they act as the humbucker?

 

[Deaf Eddie]

Wired like that, the middle throw would be parallel, not series. You can wire it that way, and it would be like any two pup guitar (two pickups are almost always played parallel, not in series).

The combo will be noise cancelling (humbucking), but it won't be like a "humbucker," where its two coils are wired in series, giving you a fatter, louder sound. Parallel will probably be a better balance, volume-wise, between the three throws. But...

If you DO want the middle throw to be series, the regular Tele 3-way would be wired like this:
NOTE: corrected drawing...

Not shown, the bare wire in the bundle would go to ground with the green wire.
Shamelessly copied and sloppily edited from Seymour Duncan...
Let us know if it works, and how you like it.

 

[ReverendRevolver]

I have a p-rails in my mustang on a 3 way slider that goes into a 3way switch.


The blade pickup is lackluster compared to the p90 side, which pretty much sounds just like a good p94/HB size p90.
Because of how thick it is, I had a hard time trying to balance it with the hot PAF bridge without getting too much p94 or too much humbucker in both mode.

The blade just doesn't stand out much.

It does usable sounds, both alone and with one coil or the whole PAF, it's just not as impressive as the other side. Maybe mounting it somehow with a 2 screws per side thing would allow it to be angled better, but I haven't tried that yet.

Could be cool on the esquire for sure.

Have fun!

 

[Dauminator63]

Wired like that, the middle throw would be parallel, not series. You can wire it that way, and it would be like any two pup guitar (two pickups are almost always played parallel, not in series).

The combo will be noise cancelling (humbucking), but it won't be like a "humbucker," where its two coils are wired in series, giving you a fatter, louder sound. Parallel will probably be a better balance, volume-wise, between the three throws.

That actually makes sense to me, like how strats "quack" in 2/4 bc they're in parallel and not series like a PAF.
Just to make sure, that diagram has the white wire as the ground to the p90, the black is the hot to p90, the green is the ground to the rail, and the red is the hot to the rail?
Thank you so much! It probably won't be a thing till after christmas, and for some reason on the forum it's saying NA for views and stuff but I'll try and keep you updated!

 

[Deaf Eddie]

"Just to make sure, that diagram has the white wire as the ground to the p90, the black is the hot to p90, the green is the ground to the rail, and the red is the hot to the rail?"

Correct.

BTW, I have a pair of P-Rails in an SG, and I found I liked the balance better between the Rail and the P90 coil by raising the pickup a bit and LOWERING the screws in the P90. The Rail is still going to be weaker and brighter than the P90, but you can get them closer in output.

After a little thought, I realized the pickup selector switch could be made much simpler. By connecting the red and white SERIES pair together on a common, you could simply shunt them one way or the other (hot or ground) to select between the coils.

So, that's a "D'oh" moment for me....

Going the other way: To run the pickups in parallel, treat the white and green leads both as ground, and run the black and red to the pickup selector switch, wired just as you would wire it for for two pickups.

 

[hamerfan]

My take on the P-Rail is a little bit different: I like the parallel sound, the humbucker was a bit bland in the neck.

@ReverendRevolver: try the rail pickup nearer to the neck. The rail will be a tad fuller and the P90 a little bit clearer. For me it was a small change, but both coils win.

 

[ReverendRevolver]

My take on the P-Rail is a little bit different: I like the parallel sound, the humbucker was a bit bland in the neck.

@ReverendRevolver: try the rail pickup nearer to the neck. The rail will be a tad fuller and the P90 a little bit clearer. For me it was a small change, but both coils win.

Would I just have to spin both pickups to keep proper phase?

What you're saying makes sense, but getting all the guts and wires back into the mustang was the hardest part of the whole endeavor; and I had to desolder at least twice from confusing what color was which........

 

[Deaf Eddie]

Rotating a pickup does NOTHING to its phase. You can rotate a pickup to put the coil you want closer to the bridge or neck.

 

[htwheelz67]

I have a lot of experience with p-rails and the parallel option is one of the best so you may want to keep it, the other thing that works wonders with the p-rails is a tbx tone control when on 10 it completely gets rid of any muddiness in the series mode. I saw the diagram a few threads above it shows 250k pots, I would only run 500k.

 

[Dauminator63]

I have a lot of experience with p-rails and the parallel option is one of the best so you may want to keep it, I would only run 500k.

Come to think about it, a tele sound is more parallel than series. This build is a few months out so I have time to sit on it, and none of my other guitars have parallel humbuckers. So why not? Also will do on the 500k pots! Thanks for the info guys!

 

[dogmeat]

pole adjustment for the P0 coil part of the coil is critical. once that is good.. rock on

 

[Zepfan]

Rotating a pickup does NOTHING to its phase. You can rotate a pickup to put the coil you want closer to the bridge or neck.

It does change the magnetic polarity in relation to the other pickup. I.E. a neck pickup turned 180 degrees will now have a magnetic polarity that is the same as the coil closest to it in the bridge pickup known as the "out of phase sound".

There is an electric phase and there is a magnetic phase. The magnetic phase change isn't as noticeable as the electric phase change, but does occur and can be noticed.
Think about the Peter Green Mod. Many argue over how it's obtained because Peter Green gave 2 different stories of how "He" did it. Both work, just one has more effect than the other and the distance between the pickups involved will dictate how much difference there is.

 

[Deaf Eddie]

I dispute this ^.

Having rotated DOZENS of humbuckers, I hear NO CHANGE in the "two humbucker" sound. It is NOT out of phase. If you compare it to a pair of pickups that ARE out of phase, the difference is remarkable, not subtle.

The Peter Green tone was two pickups played out of phase - whether it was because one of the magnets was reversed or the pickup was rewired incorrectly, THAT'S the out of phase sound. To get two humbuckers (that are constructed in phase) to play out of phase without rewiring them or flipping the magnet, you'd have to turn one UPSIDE DOWN to make them play out of phase - NOT rotate one.

YES, there's a magnetic phase and an electronic phase - and if you reverse both, you're back IN phase. That's how the two coils of a humbucker work - they're magnetically out of phase, AND wired out of phase (yup, RW/RP). Since RF interference (AKA noise) has no magnetic value, the electronically out of phase coils cancel the noise. But since they're also magnetically out of phase, the sound comes out IN phase.

 

[htwheelz67]

Come to think about it, a tele sound is more parallel than series. This build is a few months out so I have time to sit on it, and none of my other guitars have parallel humbuckers. So why not? Also will do on the 500k pots! Thanks for the info guys!

Are you using a "humbucker" tele bridge or are you going to use a pickup ring and hardtail or cutoff bridge? if using the humbucker bridge you may have to slightly trim it to make the p-rail fit if your using a pickup ring I would recommend using the duncan triple shot ring then you will have all 4 options and you wouldn't even need a 3 way switch.

 

[Zepfan]

I dispute this ^.

Having rotated DOZENS of humbuckers, I hear NO CHANGE in the "two humbucker" sound. It is NOT out of phase. If you compare it to a pair of pickups that ARE out of phase, the difference is remarkable, not subtle.

The Peter Green tone was two pickups played out of phase - whether it was because one of the magnets was reversed or the pickup was rewired incorrectly, THAT'S the out of phase sound. To get two humbuckers (that are constructed in phase) to play out of phase without rewiring them or flipping the magnet, you'd have to turn one UPSIDE DOWN to make them play out of phase - NOT rotate one.

YES, there's a magnetic phase and an electronic phase - and if you reverse both, you're back IN phase. That's how the two coils of a humbucker work - they're magnetically out of phase, AND wired out of phase (yup, RW/RP). Since RF interference (AKA noise) has no magnetic value, the electronically out of phase coils cancel the noise. But since they're also magnetically out of phase, the sound comes out IN phase.

If you look at Peter Greens guitar, the pickup is turned around because it was installed backwards. Meaning that one humbucker is magnetically out of phase with the other. When both pickups are played together they will have a thinner tone. And like I said, if they are further apart from one another, the difference is less noticeable. Probably the reason you can't hear it. The 2 humbuckers on mine are closer together(PRS type with 25" scale) and they are magnetically out of phase. Regular distance between pickups on a LP is 2 & 1/2", my PRS clone is 1 & 3/8". The pickups are wired as they should be it's just the poles that are opposite and they offer a thinner out of phase sound.
You don't have to believe it if you wish, but it doesn't change the results on my guitar.