And that may be something I won't care for as much but I won't know until I've tried them. Ceramics can sound great when they're done right and maybe these fit in that category.
Entwistle Pickups?
- Thread starter soulman969
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And that may be something I won't care for as much but I won't know until I've tried them. Ceramics can sound great when they're done right and maybe these fit in that category.
Nelson DeJesus
TDPRI Member
You've got a really good point frankly all pickups are handwound to a degree but for commercial sake the claim is not explained in detail but leading you to suggestion rather than the actual process. Alan did in fact made his name re known for his works with early Burns and other true classics as did Abbie Ybarra on the best Fender classics. Lately with the Alden guitars knockoffs of the Zematis, Entwistle made some but after it took off it's left to our imagination. I took apart a GFS WideRange and it plainly said in label 'Artec' In fact GFS has their claim on their Professional series that theirs are handwound, along with the more complicated models, but the scatterwound is not claimed at all!
Toneriders do claim to use scatterwound methods, but for their prices something's gotta give. Good scatterwounds earn their prices as do good handwounds. I've thought from all the information here at TDPRI it's understood so you pointing this out may yield a wiser aspect to using terms as fact. Thanks for pointing out that the quality of information is in greater need than being taken in by the greater quality of slick commercialism!
I have an HV58 waiting to go into a build. I actually bought a set even though I only wanted the bridge PU, because they were so inexpensive. 
Thanks for the feedback Nelson. I like what I'm hearing from you on this especially "the sounds are very Bluesy and not too thick as to muddy up the chord but leads were mid jazz to blues semi bright and pinched harmonic" and "worth every penny,not sure if they're scatterwound but the overall attack were very transparent and the dynamics changed from light or hard just like the PU-290s when strummed or picked, overall here is the ceramics when used with a compressor with a OCD by JOYO big Paf sound and great harmonics".
Transparency with a bluesy tonality as opposed to something too stinging and bright is what I'm after out of a set of P90s. I get a lot of that out of my Wilde Keystones when playing them in series and my Onamac Tall Blues set are just built to accentuate that as opposed to country twang. So it looks like I'm heading in the right direction here.
I also use that Joyo OCD and Compressor so hearing about a direct experience another player has had with these pickups through those pedals is helpful as well. Thanks. It'll be a while before I get these pickups into a build but from what I've read here and elsewhere it seems to me that these P90s are a hell of a bargain for $15 a set. I've seen them as high as $40 and if the prices are rising as you say now was the time to get them even if they're gonna be on my shelf for a bit.
Thanks again Nelson.
Thanks for chiming in Cat. My use of the word "boutique" may be taken a little out of context here or may even be improper. A couple of reviews I read from users compared them favorably to the builds of some boutique winders. I guess what I was suggesting was that maybe the overall design and tonal quality were that good or close to it. Whether or not that's true remains to be seen....or rather heard, LOL.
I didn't figure for $15 or even for twice that (EYs regular price) that I'd be getting true boutique pickups here. I just figured that based on what I'd read elsewhere and for the price they seemed too good not to give them a shot. The general consensus seems to be that Artec builds have a decent rep as far as lower cost types go so my guess is they're worth a shot.
IME what I might think of as boutique pickups don't need to cost $200 a set or more. I play a set Keystones and a set of Onamac Tall Blues that are both well under $100 and they're both incredible sounding pickups. Although my Nocasters have a different flavor to them I'd put the Keystones and Onamacs up against them any day. They have a transparency to them not found in anything else I've found at that price. Even as P90s if these Entwistles can even get close to that then I know I'll like them.
I don't think you'll be disappointed either. They're great sounding pickups and probably the most versatile of the ones I play. They're also the only set I truly like and use much to solo in series. Their incredible transparency keeps them from getting too dark or muddy so I don't have to readjust my tone much if at all when I shift from parallel into series. They have a beautiful smoky tonality to them in that setting.
vintage clubber
Friend of Leo's
thank you!
Nelson DeJesus
TDPRI Member
A freebie here in case you ever need to have an authentic acoustic sounding setting on a Tele or just a guitar in general for acoustic ambiance in a song without switching one guitar to another, I use an Artec Alnico V Hot Rail Blade Tele Bridge AlnV 12.1k on my Fender Nashville with the 250k pot and you won't believe how close to an acoustic humfree sound it gets the benny here is when boosted it gets P-90s like on LP jr and when OD'd it wears thicker duties,seems most Hot Rails use Ceramics for that brighter crunch but with AlnV it's completely different,Alnicos also respond better than ceramics when rolling the volumes and swells as well the compressions are cleaner so for the $14.00 you can do alot, good luck!
vintage clubber
Friend of Leo's
very cool! I will take a look at that next time I order from EY.
Nelson DeJesus
TDPRI Member
WEll the time has come and it's official EY Guitar music has parted company with the Entwistle pickup company. I support EY they supplied good necks,unique good quality bodies and competitive hardware Wilkinson 3 levels of Artec wares.Lace and great mainstream for less than 1/3 the going rates of ebay and shipping though debateable, all/this considered they also offered rare wares where ceramics are the norm they offered it in AlnV and carried a worldwide rep for all the customers benefits in quality and incredible prices. and of course I loved the Entwistle pickups for their originality in style and the quality was some of the best available, but I will continue to support EY services and look for yourselves on the this firm you won't be sorry Eric runs a legit and worthwhile business!
I
Nelson DeJesus
TDPRI Member
Thanks for the feedback Nelson. I like what I'm hearing from you on this especially "the sounds are very Bluesy and not too thick as to muddy up the chord but leads were mid jazz to blues semi bright and pinched harmonic" and "worth every penny,not sure if they're scatterwound but the overall attack were very transparent and the dynamics changed from light or hard just like the PU-290s when strummed or picked, overall here is the ceramics when used with a compressor with a OCD by JOYO big Paf sound and great harmonics".
Transparency with a bluesy tonality as opposed to something too stinging and bright is what I'm after out of a set of P90s. I get a lot of that out of my Wilde Keystones when playing them in series and my Onamac Tall Blues set are just built to accentuate that as opposed to country twang. So it looks like I'm heading in the right direction here.
I also use that Joyo OCD and Compressor so hearing about a direct experience another player has had with these pickups through those pedals is helpful as well. Thanks. It'll be a while before I get these pickups into a build but from what I've read here and elsewhere it seems to me that these P90s are a hell of a bargain for $15 a set. I've seen them as high as $40 and if the prices are rising as you say now was the time to get them even if they're gonna be on my shelf for a bit.
Thanks again Nelson.
Hey
How did it all work out for you...I just saw a you tube of GFS & D.Grosh P-90s
and also an Entewistle X-90 ceramic,the GFS comes in w.AlnVs,Grosh come in AlnII(?) the Entwistle though ceramic mounted on a(Wilkinson) Vintage 100GT had the sound vintaged and wide open 50s-60s Rock Blues clean open like a recording of a great 50s recording. Yea the X-90s are really something but they were mounted on LP style guit not a Tele or so,now listening to the Grosh's on the Tele had their moments and definitely noteable on LP style but on a Tele seems there's a world of differences and it did open my eyes because I'm working on a Tele routed for 2 x P-90s & choice of trem or Floyd(?) anyhow those X-90s are so open clean & vintaged that the idea of ceramic of a thoght passed before AlnIIIs maybe just use the ceramic on a Tele being they're brighter sounding guitars and the trem w. the springs I set them up to have like echo with two springs not really using them for trem work. But I was curious on your out come so when you do finish give a holler like comparing notes btw I just finished rebuilding my '75 LP Special ''55 RI and I installed AlnIIIs regaussed and it seems I 'll be working on P-90s for a while next is the Entwistle Nashvilles AlnV & ND-Neodymiums I got from EY Music, its too bad what happened at the closing between them but ther's Atrecs,Laces,& other lil ditties I got off the net, I even rebuilt my brand new Fender Tele Cab. and replaced the neck Fidelitron w. a Gretsch(Fender too) HS 'Tron came out really good, that guitar is horrible w/o a tone so I used a concentric(tone over volume) now it's getting to be an Outlaw,btw X-90s transparency is bigger did you notice that at all,the harmonic also is ceramic in nature. Alnico's compress, ceramics pinch and swell like a note and harmonic sound on sound,that was so different guess that's why DiMarzio's 70' Super Distortion changed the face of music in the 70s,so how about dropping a line, I'd like to know your findings as well,thanks..k...later!
Hi Nelson and thanks for following up. The P90s are still on the shelf awaiting a body and neck. I ideally I'd probably rather have them in a Thinline style but I haven't found many vendors selling bodies of any type that are routed for dual P90s and a drilled for a hardtail bridge. I may end up looking for a used Modern Player or I may even look for a LP Jr copy if I can find one that I can tolerate the neck on.
Since I just bought an Esquire from a friend this project is on the back burner for now anyway. It will probably be later this fall before I get serious about putting these pickups to work which is a shame because I'm anxious to play them but it's just gonna take a little more time before I get to it.
In reading through you post I'd like to be sure I understood what you were saying about them versus the Grosh's. Are you saying that you thought the X90s would sound better on a Tele body or that they sounded better on the LP? If I don't use them on a Tele style then it would be a simple mahogany LP Jr not a maple capped full size LP. So let me know where you think these pickups sound best.
I'll keep you posted when I get started on this project but as I say it looks like it's gonna be a while longer before I get to it. My budget only permits so much at a time and that Esquire is something I've had in my mind for quite a while. A friend built it from parts and did an outstanding job on it so I couldn't pass it up.
For what it is worth, Tanglewood put Entwistle pickups in their Gibson copies. The Les Pauls they make have HV-58s and their SGs have 'Dark Star' pickups which are apparently hot to the point of being muddy. I don't know, I've never tried them.
it seems there is one guy, Alan Entwistle, behind these pickups. He probably just sends a list of requirements to the Artec plant, or some other faceless OEM giant over in China. GFS do it, Giovanni do it as well as Wilkinson. A cursory glance at Ebay also reveals those cheap 'fake' Bill Lawrence (when he lost the company name) pickups ship from the US but at Chinese prices. Tonerider are also made out of the Chinese plant, but apparently the owner lives nearby so doesn't have the horror of opening a customs-scrutinised box of pickups wound to the wrong spec...
The Entwistle-loaded Tanglewood Les Pauls I've played all sounded pretty good. I think the temptation is to always put hot, but poorly executed, humbuckers in cheaper Gibson-style instruments to snag the beginner player with hotter tones. This was true for the Yamaha Pacifica I own which has two 'cool' single coils and a raging G&B humbucker in the bridge (which I swapped out). In the Tanglewoods, the neck pickup was especially dynamic and clear, which is the first attribute to suffer in cheaper neck pickups. Pretty impressive really.
it seems there is one guy, Alan Entwistle, behind these pickups. He probably just sends a list of requirements to the Artec plant, or some other faceless OEM giant over in China. GFS do it, Giovanni do it as well as Wilkinson. A cursory glance at Ebay also reveals those cheap 'fake' Bill Lawrence (when he lost the company name) pickups ship from the US but at Chinese prices. Tonerider are also made out of the Chinese plant, but apparently the owner lives nearby so doesn't have the horror of opening a customs-scrutinised box of pickups wound to the wrong spec...
The Entwistle-loaded Tanglewood Les Pauls I've played all sounded pretty good. I think the temptation is to always put hot, but poorly executed, humbuckers in cheaper Gibson-style instruments to snag the beginner player with hotter tones. This was true for the Yamaha Pacifica I own which has two 'cool' single coils and a raging G&B humbucker in the bridge (which I swapped out). In the Tanglewoods, the neck pickup was especially dynamic and clear, which is the first attribute to suffer in cheaper neck pickups. Pretty impressive really.
Nelson DeJesus
TDPRI Member
Hey
Theres Tele TL's suppliers, DIY guitars and Stew Mac are two who outfit for Thinlines at great prices and also contribute with hardware that fit their and other start up kits. I remember seeing at the least 5 more suppliers to speak of, but no they do exist in fact that's what I use and why I know what exists which is ,brother you name it! I bought a Tele body(GFS) routed for P-90s and routed for a tremolo in White Poplar (when with a simple coats of brown type stain and filler( I used Min Wax restorer in brown) it looks just like ash to mahogany)..medium weight, but it's brighter than an usual LP jr or bigger
so the denser the guitar the closer it sounds to the killer vintage '58 P-90s and earlier with the AlnIII of the 40s-mid 50s P-90 sound and character,but remember these are ceramics which however it exists they do sound like the real dawgs of their day. If you use em on Tele or LPjr it'll sound like the Jrs and nails it dead on! Now your idea on a LP jr or Tele TL ,,won't be as loud as on a LP capped(Goldtop like) or that character but it would definitely be vintage and less denser, a lil brighter but something you'd love to have.By all means they are the real thing...not like other P-90s of the priced market they are at but more of what you'd expect from the more expensive boutiques. They're being sold as Chinese made pups like Artecs which is twice the price... Entwistle is currently reaching out of that discrepancy of status and mind set to make their point known and that they are made in England and distributed by Hong Kong dealers and on the on line services. They scatterwind(!????) their PAFs among others of their marketed products but I don't ever remember seeing Entwistle as being made in China, but you will find them on MIC or Chinese crafted guitars or better. That whole MIC and the relation of those products is so evasive you can't know unless like at Entwistle they say they are not made in China, every pup I've bought from Entwistle have said they say and are marked Made in the UK! If you want Grosh to get their Grosh sound, then buy Grosh($$$), if you want a or the Vintage P-90 sound then try the XP-90 ceramics on a LP they'll nail the Goldtop LP, on a Tele TL you'll get a LP jr and maybe between ES335 character(they're maple throughout) and something special to you (and me) because that's a great idea and more than cost effective and super shrewd , these pups are dynamic and touch sensitive(48mm-50mm not 50mm-52mm) so however they're made they're the real deal even but with the ceramic detail..btw on a DIY for a LPjr set neck kit in unfinished mahogany ($160.00) they even have a Strat body detailed and routed for vintage Tele set up($130.00)good luck and by all means write me and let me on how it works out..k..later bud!
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Nelson DeJesus
TDPRI Member
Every Entwistle I've bought (14) all are marked as being made in the UK, read his history and also check out the Alden Zematis knockoff guitar company there's alot of info their pups and it's a misconception that they are MIC's, and compare prices to Artecs the Artecs are twice the price and I've also bought (8) Artecs I really dig what they all do but you gotta spend the money you save from not buying the expensives! It's a great world of goodies but you gotta gamble to find out, I at least try to know what I do from not pulling the trigger, and not by just buying, installing, selling... and I try by reaching out to the actual people who sell the products. There's always the human aspect of the business find out from what I tried and you'll know what I mean,the worst is the buying American attitude and those prejudices that spend the boutique incredible overpriced bonanza that brings out worst in really trying to get a good line or getting a good product in hand!
Funny thing buying American if you can grasp my meaning but but if you spend a couple hundred on products from Germany,UK,it's ok, but even buying from Canada,MIM,it's just like buying MIK,MIC,MIA,MI India,so I guess now Entwistle is varying their stand at the market credibility to up their well deserved price hikes after all they are or claim they are made in UK,check the ebay UK or US ebay as well and you'll see their listed as the Entwistles are made in the UK but the prices are 2-3x's the going rate that used to be til recently.
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Thanks for the comeback Nelson. The Entwistle P90s are what I bought and definitely what I'll be using and what you've posted helps a lot. I think my goal will be to shoot for either a mahogany body Thin Line or a LP Jr. I'm not about to deal with the weight of a full size non-chambered LP again. Been there, done that, and sold it long ago. My basses are nowhere near that heavy.
I should clarify that I've found plenty of Tele bodies finished and unfinished but few if any pre-routed for P90s. I can have the body routed here if need be but it's just one of those expenses that adds to the overall cost. If I end up building one what I'd really prefer is a body without the top routes for the wiring and control cavity so there's no need for a pickguard but cost is also a factor.
For now I may end up looking for a deal on a Fender Modern Player or another similar Thinline if the price is right or as I posted before I may look at an off brand LP Jr. like a GFS if the neck profile works for me. Both have mahogany bodies and the controls I'm looking for then all I need to do is a pickup swap and a good set up and I'm good. The build may come later when I have more time and more space to do it in.
Thanks again for your advice Nelson. This is helpful since it tells me which directions I don't want to go in and narrows those I do. I'll keep you posted but it's still gonna be a bit before I get to this one.
Later amigo!
Nelson DeJesus
TDPRI Member
You know I can relate to what you stated as Artec being the big wig of all the pickups, the one thing I can't get around is that regardless of different company names there's this tag on all pickups or just about is one tag marked as ''ROHS Company'' whether through one distributor or another is that one tag as a green or black bold print on white background. I've bought Mighty-Mite Artec,Entwistle,etc.,5 different Chinese distributors 2 in Hong Kong,...does make me think of what's been said of all the pickups being made not just distributed in that neck of the woods...would definetely be a great blog topic if you wanna try it just let me know...thanks ..later
Nelson DeJesus
TDPRI Member
BTW after researching it all over again(x's?) the tag reads RoHS Compliant not Company which makes for a world of difference....so it's back to believing with the conviction that EY and Entwistle split company over more than just price hiking which is again the resource of attaining them elsewhere, still though makes for a great blog in that how many companies are there under the banner of Artec, I forgot to mention Arcane as well as I'm sure it's all the same item under the price difference, name,appearance(s) and the fortunate sane reasoning the quality is the same if it's the same item,right(?) oh well thanks again.
RoHS is, I think, some set of standards for dangerous substances. Basically, if your pickup catches fire it won't burn like a Roman Candle. It has to be stamped on all sorts of stuff, regardless of end use or construction materials. In the same sense newer Yamaha instruments have a "do not bin" logo stuck under the clear coat.
Cat MacKinnon
Friend of Leo's
"RoHS Compliant" is simply a European Union safety compliance standard, mostly related to electronics. electronics that can be imported into the EU (or other adhering countries) need to be RoHS-Compliant, meaning they meet certain safety and e-waste standards. i believe the RoHS thing is what's responsible for the restriction or banning of lead-based solder in a lot of electronics these days (although i could be wrong about that one.)
in other words, it's just a way to make sure that no toxic substances are used in consumer electronics unnecessarily (like mercury, lead, that sort of thing.) i think it's similar to the "UL Listed" sticker you see on American electronics (which means that product meets safety standards set by Underwriters Laboratory.)
RoHS Wikipedia Entry
