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Elvis, The Beatles and Bob Dylan...

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by 2HBStrat, May 14, 2020.

  1. warrent

    warrent Friend of Leo's

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    I'm confused by your quote are you saying Dylan isn't an icon? All three of them were incredibly influential and important just because they have super fans or are as you like to say "overrated" doesn't change that fact. Were they the only ones? No, but they did change the course of modern music by existing and no amount of revisionist history or criticizing their respective fan bases will change that.
     
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  2. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Dylan is an icon, but by what standard should we use to measure? For example, there is the "Target T-shirt" icon test. Is the band/artist in major retail stores on screen printed tees? I missed the Dylan T-shirt, but it might of been under the Mickey Mouse pile. More young people today revere Tupac than Dylan, and that aint a bad thing, it's just as you say, what it is. Tupac changed the course of modern music, he is an icon, and he is influential and important to the history of music, no matter what you or I say. Over the generations Tupac, like Dylan and yes the Beatles will fade from view, and in turn become less prominent to what the masses like to hear and play, but it doesn't mean they weren't important or iconic. The influential aspect is hard to judge with respect to time, as I see it very much a multi-generational thing.

    This aint revisionism, this ain't trying to knock the masses' idols off their pedestals. I'm a fan of music and I listen to it constantly, and my livelihood is not being a critic, so I have no dog in this 'fight' as a rabble rouser. IF the music is good, if we listen to it, and if we cover (covet?) and imitate it, then it's good. It changes our lives. Dylan did that for me, kinda. Beatles did that, quite a bit. Elvis not so much. 2-pac, yes, James Brown, hell yeah. That's my story. I'm not alone in that either.

    So yeah, I stick by what I said: they are overrated, because of super-fandom. Like slim said above, my opinion is not mutually exclusive from OP's opinion.
     
  3. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Tele-Afflicted

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    I can't envision a scenario in which I can think of Elvis, The Beatles, or Bob Dylan as overrated. For me a good example of a musical act that is overrated is Greta Van Fleet...
    I would imagine that Dylan keeps a close watch on his marketing...I doubt that a Dylan t-shirt would be seen at Target...
     
  4. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Friend of Leo's

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    "Name a more important, influential, and iconic trio of musical acts."

    Robert Johnson
    Louis Armstrong
    Bessie Smith

    Gee, that was easy.

    Oh, wait... Are we to take this literally?
    Mitch, Noel, and Jimi.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  5. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    This is supposed to be fun and games. But that's the point: not being able to imagine a point where one can say "ok enough Rainy Day Women for now". Is that fandom blindness? It might not be his best song-smith example. No harm done, and I could be wrong, I'm speaking off the cuff when it comes to an example. But I'm also informed, and Dylan doesn't get a free ride because he's an icon or generationally relevant a couple decades ago. That song is about getting high, right? :)

    I'm done praising these dudes. I've moved on. I respect them but I won't have any regrets that I never listened to every song Bobby sang and wrote before I kick the bucket. Nope, not one bit.

    GVF, ok good example. Overrated, a bit, but it's only because they are highly derivative. Icons? Nope, only to their most devout fans. I suspect those fans will move on to the hard stuff later. Important? Hey, they're young, time will tell.. It's relative.

    The "Target test" is just some stuff I made up on the fly lol. Of all the 3 acts you mentioned, the cross generational icons with the most current t-shirt cred, it's the Beatles first, Dylan next for the hipster songwriters being ironic, and Elvis last, for the rock n roll guys, because their Cramps shirt was too dirty that day. Lol.
     
  6. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Tele-Afflicted

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    You seem to be the one taking it away from "fun and games" territory...
     
  7. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I’m still having fun in this both ways, absurdist or academic. I can go either way. But you know, I just, like, disagree, man, and ain’t nothing wrong with that.

    I asked my 21 year old daughter today in a casual conversation “who would you say is more important? Beatles, Dylan, Elvis?” She was like “None, I don’t put any of them on a pedestal”. Well, to be fair, she is my daughter, but shes an EDM event organizer, and I exposed her to everything, just like I was growing up, with nearly 1000 vinyl records and various family musicians. It runs in our bloodline I guess. Point being, thread post numero uno was a challenge, and I’m just rising up to it :)
     
  8. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Tele-Afflicted

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    Well, I sincerely apologize. I should have realized from your initial posting of Jack Black, John Cusack and Moby the seriousness with which you are participating in this thread...Certainly legendary musical icons all...
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Heheh, the seriousness was gradual but yeah....I have a new ‘serious’ list for the thread today:

    Prince, Robert Johnson, Led Zep.
     
  10. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

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    The first guy who ever hit a log with a stick in a repetitive fashion and invented rhythm, the guy who started chanting along with the first guy, and Robert Johnson.
     
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  11. Hari Seldon

    Hari Seldon Tele-Meister

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    +1 for Robert Johnson.

    And not far from here they found a ca. 35000 year old flute in a cave.
    It was already well made and even ornamented. Kinda custom shop.
     
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  12. saltyseadog

    saltyseadog Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    If it hadn't been for the blues rock that came in the wake of the rolling stones, eric clapton etc in the UK in the wake of the Beatles then with the best will in the world I doubt that Robert Johnson would have been more than a musical footnote and believe when I say I am a fan of his.

    Bessie Smith was a cutural icon in her time but she never changed that world, in fact I believe she died in a car crash outside a hospital for white people.

    Louis Armstrong without doubt a musical maestro who took his music all over the world and was accepted all over the world but he never ever rocked the boat in the way that the Beatles, Dylan and Elvis did. So not so easy then?.
     
  13. TG

    TG Doctor of Teleocity

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    I can't. Not honestly.
     
  14. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Crowd source data, 9 search hits in-thread, says Robert Johnson is champ of champs, and I believe it.

    The Beatles still sell more T-shirts though, probably because of marketing. I wonder who owns those rights???
     
  15. gwjensen

    gwjensen Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    How about hugely influential singers...

    Bing
    Billie
    Frank
     
  16. funkysoul

    funkysoul Tele-Meister

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    james brown
    miles davis
    chuck berry
     
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  17. rocksmoot

    rocksmoot Tele-Meister

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    Son House
    Lightning Hopkins
    Chuck Berry

    Honorable mentions:
    T-Bone Walker
    Muddy Waters
    Howlin' Wolf
     
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  18. 2HBStrat

    2HBStrat Tele-Afflicted

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    You're really into T-shirt sales as an indication of iconicness, aren't you? How many Robert Johnson T-shirts have you seen?
     
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  19. saltyseadog

    saltyseadog Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    Also how many Robert Johnson tribute acts are there worldwide?. :cool:
     
  20. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Sure why not? I welcome better ideas. The point was already brought up when you said Dylan's estate might control his likeness. Marketing has a lot to do why young people know about the Beatles today. Nobody marketed RJ back then, and Brits served it back to the States, probably the biggest marketing right there, sadly. RJs a bigger icon, a bigger influence, and more important that the Beatles, along with his delta blues peers. Yet who gets the praise and attention? Why? A big part is marketing, that's why. It's pop music after all. The first pop band.
     
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