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Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by Doug 54, Apr 16, 2014.
Why are you using a buffer before the buffered boss?
You have attained mucho street cred with me by knowing who Darrel Higham is, or Imelda May for that matter.
^ I get street cred on Post 666! Thanks, mate.
Plus, Darrel and his lovely wife are about as good as it gets.
Because not all buffers are equal. My buffer system controls both my and and out for my whole pedalboard, and my NS-2 is only in the chain when my "drive pedal loop" is in the chain.
My drive sound consists of two pedals stacked,
My board has KLON input and output buffers, I like how they affect my top end.
"It's not about me, but rather everybody but me"
The key to low noise is eliminating "noise amplification"
Basically cutting the noise from your guitar before pedals or amps
"It's not about me, but rather everybody but me"
Its not a noise gate so it doesn't eliminate all the hum. But it does eliminate the 60hz hum that you get with single coils. I would even still want a noise gate after like the ns-2 for high gain stuff. But I find it gives you a cleaner platform for your gain pedal (s).
I really appreciate the comments
I'll do one last BTT
I've been playing BOSS NS-2s for twenty years. When I was looking into an ISP Decimator, my online research led me to some metal and seven string guitar forums and such. Lots of the guys posting were using multiple gates- two ISPs, ISP + NS-2, ISP or NS-2 plus MXR Smart Gate, and at various points in their chains, and/or within amp's FX loop, lots of different approaches. I found it pretty educational. Needless to say, those guys are using a sh1t ton more gain than me, and the staccato chugging of the style is a factor with gates.
So the concept of using a Hum Debugger early in the chain and a NS-2 or ISP later in the chain is interesting. I guess the use of the Debugger would see a NS-2 or Decimator being able to use more moderate threshold settings? Eugenedunn's rig is interesting to me as the ISP is placed after, and not before, time-based effects. I place my Decimator after dirt and before modulation and delay.
Personally, I'm fine with the way NS-2 and ISP Decimator handle noise issues and don't think I need a Debugger or multiple units within a rig, but I do like the concept of knocking the noise out period. There's one particular room I play where the 60 cycle hum is super bad with the single coil pickup on my Gold Tone lap steel. Some combination of wiring, neon Budweiser & Miller signs, and that instrument simply do not get along. And that instrument is fine everywhere else. So I had to set threshold so high on NS-2 to tame it that sustain was clipped and signal was attenuated. I finally just started leaving that lap steel at home when I work that room. Not that this one scenario would justify purchase (for me), but I wonder how Debugger would fare in this setting. Or if the signal to noise ratio is so bad that the Debugger would need to be set to deal with extreme noise floor to the point of introducing the aforementioned undesirable artifacts.
Two major ways of approaching noise reduction with one great result
Here's how I view the advantage of the noise reduction at two ends of the signal processing chain. You're gonna develop noise as a function of two major modalities in the chain.
The first major source is your guitar itself. The guitar is unlike any pedal. It's a signal generator that uses magnetic coils and vibrating strings to induce signal. That combo is gonna be susceptible to AC 60-cycle hum and radio frequency interference more than any pedal circuitry inside a metal box with no coils to interact.
The Hum Debugger's circuitry specifically senses that particular type of noise fingerprint and is able to cancel it. But to be effective, it's gotta be a direct feed from the guitar itself. No processing in-between, which could fool the Debugger circuitry and cause those undesirable artifacts.
After the Hum Debugger, you have the plethora of all your pedal processing gear...some of which are DC and some are AC (hopefully all the DC stuff is on regulated and isolated power supply cables). Each of these devices might generate some small amount of noise, either as a part of their inherent background noise (because of their high gain), or possibly from AC ground loops of different ground potentials and crappy wal-wart supplies.
This noise is typically more like "white noise"....it is different from the guitar-generated buzz usually. A properly set noise reduction like the ISP Decimator doesn't have to be set very high to deal with that type of noise, I've found......you've already taken care of the main offender at the beginning of the processing chain with the Debugger, so the gating or other noise reduction method is minor and does not affect your signal decay much at all.
There's little "noise amplification".
Pretty dang effective and transparent, in my experience.
Oops! Wasn't like I planned it that way or anything!
Lookin for a used one. Will prolly order this wk.
THANX again ya'll!!
^ Any luck?
I usually use, when I need one, an ISP Decimator.
I was sound checking at club out here (Largo) and I was was getting hellacious 60 cycle with a Tele > tuner > drive (barber GC) > TC dly > BF Bassman. Relatively quiet rig but at some venues (like this one) it can be really noisy (lights, funky wireless mic rigs, kitchen, bar, old building, etc.). I didn't have my ISP w/me (very stupid because I know this place is potentially noisy). The sound guy had two EH humdebuggers there with proprietary pwr supplies. They did absolutely nothing to the noise anywhere I placed them in the chain. That's my experience. YMMV. I know they work for some guys.
thanx for post
I have a Hum Debugger and i like it. I place it after the od's because i see it as a short slapback delay and it takes the noise away anyway. I would never put a delay before od's. The good thing about the Hum Debugger is that you can always bypass it, which you can't do with the Suhr system or humbucking pickups. It does alter the tone with some ambience kind of feeling, and that is not the baddest thing at all. The other systems like Suhr also alters the tone, but you can't turn them off.
I had a Hum Debugger and ended up getting rid of it and got an ISP Decimator instead. The Debugger was ok for getting rid of noise with single coils and a cleaner tone but if you add too much gain, it gets a weird slapback delay that some may like but I couldn't stand it.
I think all the people speaking of the "slapback delay" or other noise artifacts, are likely not putting the Hum Debugger where the manufacturer intended it to be: Immediately after the guitar. It quells the buzz from that source only.
Putting the unit further down the signal chain, only increases the chances you are going to get artifactual noise or effects like the delay that was mentioned a couple times.... The directions state where to position the unit pretty clearly.
That's why I've chosen the ISP Decimator at the other end of the signal chain, as the final piece of a noise reduction strategy.....to squelch any hiss or gain noise from pedals. The Hum Debugger quiets the 60 cycle buzz so effectively, that the ISP Decimator can be adjusted to have just a minimal gate.....the gating is practically unnoticeable, except if you have full-on HIGH GAIN FUZZ kicked in.
I got the delay effect when the Hum Debugger was the only pedal.
What kind of guitar and pickups, Otis? Really interesting.
I have tried my rig with the following axe types:
*PRS Custom 24 (2 humbuckers with coil-splitting),
*3 pickup Nashville Tele (Lollar P90, strat pickup, Tele bridge pickup),
*Hollow jazz box with Lollar single coil Charlie Christian pickup,
*Acoustic dreadnaught with Duncan single coil magnetic pickup,
*Acoustic with Fishman transducer in bridge,
*Baritone Strat with standard single coils,
*Vintage lapsteel with big single coil pickup
None of these produced any weird artifactual noises with the Hum Debugger. None of these pickups were active....all passive.